Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Which means a hatred of people who work hard, pay taxes and make sacrifices to invest in their futures. Yep, that’s Labour.

Carry on, it’s all the fault of the voters.

Nothing of the sort. That is your prejudice again, it’s simply that these advantages you enjoy are off the radar for them, if any hatred is being shown it is in your contempt for those less fortunate than you, and let’s face it doing things you can afford isn’t making sacrifices is it?
You buy second homes from the surplus you have, and pay for private education to give your kids an advantage over the children of the poor
That they don’t actually deserve.
Great way of perpetuating class differences isn’t it?

 

[oldgroaner]

You are joking arent you. You actually still think Labour were a Remain party. Rubbish. They had no idea what they were. That was the problem. They might have been, but then again might not. Find me one shred of evidence suggesting Labour supported Remain. They strongly supported Leave with their 2017 Manifesto but suggesting theu were going to offer a referendum means nothing. Besides, people didnt want another referendum.
You voted for a Leave party masquerading behind a referendum. No mp in the house wanted to leave more than Corbyn. Due diligence of his past would tell you that. What the party wanted was different but Corbyn decided policy. Its exactly why they lost Leave and Remain voters and gained... Almost none from anywhere.

Clearly you didn't read my post here is the important part
" voted for a party that offered the chance of a referendum "
People didn't want a referendum? when 54% didn't vote for Boris? but for parties that either wanted to cancel Brexit or have a referendum.
Ye Gods. what rubbish you post. And if you check back I have said he wanted to leave.. so what?
So why did you vote for him?

 

[oldgroaner]

So why werent you lobbying Labour to support Remain. Campbell,, Kinnock and Blair all wanted them to.
Its been the greatest travesty of this entire episode that Labour did not campaign on remain. In both elections.
If I had been a Remainer I, d be furious. You were left with Jo Swinson to represent you. An utter disgrace at every level.
The Labour party chose to ignore lots of public feeling (the million people march), Alistair Campbell, Tony Blair and even all 3 Kinnocks. It was probably because Blair and Campbell were saying it but the Kinnocks??? (who BTW were not expelled from Labour party for voting LibDem at EU) whereas Campbell was. And then we actually have to wonder why Labour lost so many voters. Incredible. Its obvious.Media had nothing at all to do with it.
They lost the support of their best known ambassadors and still went on in same manner. Did Corbyn ask Glenys Kinnock and Campbell why they supported LibDems?? No, they decided they weren't proper Labour and carried on.
Unless ofcourse Kinnock, Campbell and Blair bought into Daily Mail rubbish. Or perhaps BBC propoganda put them off Labour. Or perhaps they are thick northerners.

You really can't stop with this whingeing can you? we lost, it happened what is the point of your wailing about it?
Especially now you are prepared to give Boris a chance.

 

[Woosh]

Besides, people didnt want another referendum.

I believe if JC had offered a referendum of BJ's deal, he would not have lost so heavily.
My point is: don't bother explain why people should vote for you, just concentrate on collecting the protest votes. Concentrate on those that don't want Bojo or his deal.

 

[oldgroaner]

It seems elections are a thing of the past
"
Boris Johnson plans to hand Zac Goldsmith a peerage after former MP loses seat
Boris Johnson is reportedly planning to hand Zac Goldsmith a peerage to keep him in cabinet - despite losing his seat a week ago in the election.
Not only but also
"
Despite not standing to be an MP, Nicky Morgan will retain her role in the cabinet after she was handed peerage.
@eddiemair
: Is it time to reform the House of Lords?


So much for democracy

 

[oldgroaner]

Interesting tweet
Jacob Rees-Mogg keeps his job in cabinet reshuffle despite Grenfell Tower remarks
And my tweet in response
oldgroaner@oldgroaner

Replying to
@TheNewEuropean
They'd better keep three seats clear on the front row

 

[OxygenJames]

the mass of people are just too dumb to understand anything more complicated than a three word slogan.

What's gotten into you Flecc?

Why are you still insulting the people who you need to win back to your side? Do you think that will work? You always struck me as reasonable and rational - but I can not for the life of me work out your position here.

Are you just so emotionally caught up you can't help yourself?

 

[OxygenJames]

this Government is no more likely to go full term than the last one, which ate itself.

With a majority of 80? Huh?

 

[OxygenJames]

Vile people...

Now you're doing it too. How are you going to win these people back with an attitude like that?

 

[Danidl]

You are joking arent you. You actually still think Labour were a Remain party. Rubbish. They had no idea what they were. That was the problem. They might have been, but then again might not. Find me one shred of evidence suggesting Labour supported Remain. They strongly supported Leave with their 2017 Manifesto but suggesting theu were going to offer a referendum means nothing. Besides, people didnt want another referendum.
You voted for a Leave party masquerading behind a referendum. No mp in the house wanted to leave more than Corbyn. Due diligence of his past would tell you that. What the party wanted was different but Corbyn decided policy. Its exactly why they lost Leave and Remain voters and gained... Almost none from anywhere.

All the British political parties were like lemmings after the referendum and parroted phrases like "we respect the will of the people".. when they were utterly unsure of what that was.
I regret that Labour was not more obviously Remainer.. it is desirable for an opposition to oppose. . But their position was actually clear . Give the people a final looksee whenever a real deal is ready.

 

[OxygenJames]

All the British political parties were like lemmings after the referendum and parroted phrases like "we respect the will of the people".. when they were utterly unsure of what that was.
I regret that Labour was not more obviously Remainer.. it is desirable for an opposition to oppose. . But their position was actually clear . Give the people a final looksee whenever a real deal is ready.

Labour support was more evenly split on Brexit than the Tories - hence they tried - in vain as it turned out - to straddle both positions.

People are saying if they'd just come out one way or the other they would have polled better in the GE - I don't see that - they were in an impossible situation. The Tories on the other hand could lean towards 'leave' where most of their support lay anyway.

 

[Zlatan]

Clearly you didn't read my post here is the important part
" voted for a party that offered the chance of a referendum "
People didn't want a referendum? when 54% didn't vote for Boris? but for parties that either wanted to cancel Brexit or have a referendum.
Ye Gods. what rubbish you post. And if you check back I have said he wanted to leave.. so what?
So why did you vote for him?

I liked his spending plan, said that loads, and didnt trust Boris to keep to his election promises.

 

[oldgroaner]

With a majority of 80? Huh?

Indeed!

 

[Zlatan]

Clearly you didn't read my post here is the important part
" voted for a party that offered the chance of a referendum "
People didn't want a referendum? when 54% didn't vote for Boris? but for parties that either wanted to cancel Brexit or have a referendum.
Ye Gods. what rubbish you post. And if you check back I have said he wanted to leave.. so what?
So why did you vote for him?

So you did vote for a leader that wanted to leave..

 

[oldgroaner]

Now you're doing it too. How are you going to win these people back with an attitude like that?

No intention of bothering! Boris will do that for us, he's a liability to Tufton Street
I wonder how many gaffes he has to make before they move Gove into his place?

 

[oldgroaner]

So you did vote for a leader that wanted to leave..

As did you, I'm not sure what your point is when we both knew beforehand what his preference was, I voted for the position that the party offered a referendum not that one man wanted to leave the EU

 

[Woosh]

I regret that Labour was not more obviously Remainer.. it is desirable for an opposition to oppose. . But their position was actually clear . Give the people a final looksee whenever a real deal is ready.

May I repeat again, remainers didn't vote for Bojo, they voted for other remain parties.
the problem wasn't Labour's offer of a referendum.
SNP, Libdems, PC, Greens all support a second referendum.
It's Corbyn's insistence that he'll negotiate a deal then may or may not vote against his own deal that made him totally unbelievable.
Even his own cabinet advised him against not taking a position.Going against his own cabinet, he only has himself to blame.

 

[flecc]

What's gotten into you Flecc?

Why are you still insulting the people who you need to win back to your side? Do you think that will work? You always struck me as reasonable and rational - but I can not for the life of me work out your position here.

Are you just so emotionally caught up you can't help yourself?

I don't need to win them over. As I've sure you'll agree the Labour position has been a lost cause for some while. We'll disagree about some of the details of that but probably agree the fight will have to wait for a distant day.

Meanwhile, I see no problem in expressing just criticism. That does no future damage since when the pendulum swings, those who voted for failure disown authorship of it. People really are that dishonest when it's expedient.
.

 

[50Hertz]

All the British political parties were like lemmings after the referendum and parroted phrases like "we respect the will of the people".. when they were utterly unsure of what that was.
I regret that Labour was not more obviously Remainer.. it is desirable for an opposition to oppose. . But their position was actually clear . Give the people a final looksee whenever a real deal is ready.

Labour’s position was stated, but you had to dig it out of the ground, sift all the dirt away, piece the bits together and then decipher the message. People don’t like that, they want a nice clear message like, Get Brexit Done. It’s dumbing down, but that’s where we are and it worked.

 

[Danidl]

Labour’s position was stated, but you had to dig it out of the ground, sift all the dirt away, piece the bits together and then decipher the message. People don’t like that, they want a nice clear message like, Get Brexit Done. It’s dumbing down, but that’s where we are and it worked.

Well it worked in the sense that a vote was achieved. But it has not worked in any other sense. Things need to made as simple as necessary ,but no simpler.
One sensible decision that BJ has made is in retaining Julien Smith as Secretary for NI ...I suspect this came out of his phone call with Leo Varakar . Smith seems to have gained a measure of respect from the warring factions in NI