Brexit, for once some facts.

[jonathan.agnew]

That isn't at issue, being born in the Middle East isn't a punishment. Where we are born and the circumstances in which we are born are matters of chance, for Begum's child as it was for all of us.
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its easy to say that from the relative security of the uk. i have a hunch being born to a stateless mother in a Syrian refugee camp could well feel - and become - a considerable punishment indeed

 

[Fingers]

Watch Vice.

If any of you ever go to the cinema

 

[flecc]

we are prejudging her on the basis of assumptions. That's before we get to the degree to which a muddled fifteen year old can really truly make an informed decision.

Firstly I'm not judging her, I'm just leaving her to her choice of position which she maintains.

And I'm not making assumptions, just taking her own stated position at face value. Any assumption is yours by saying muddled 15 year old.
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[flecc]

its easy to say that from the relative security of the uk. i have a hunch being born to a stateless mother in a Syrian refugee camp could well feel - and become - a considerable punishment indeed

So what, we make what we can from the chance of where born.

I could consider myself punished by being born into a dodgy climate with an impending world war to very poor parents and growing up in a cockroach infested slum, until the Germans took pity on us and bombed the place.

I'd have loved to have been born to a couple of easy going billionaires in warmer climes, but it wasn't to be.
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[Woosh]

So what, we make what we can from the chance of where born.

I could consider myself punished by being born into a dodgy climate with an impending world war to very poor parents and growing up in a cockroach infested slum, until the Germans took pity on us and bombed the place.

I'd have loved to have been born to a couple of easy going billionaires in warmer climes, but it wasn't to be.
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your parents did not have to face the same choice.
Wars create tricky situations. What happens if you/your parents find yourself in the losing camp?

 

[tommie]

your parents did not have to face the same choice.

would that be because fleccs parents didn`t embrace some violent ideology by a collection of psychopaths out in the Middle East or similar??

Wars create tricky situations. What happens if you find yourself in the losing camp?

 

[oldgroaner]

War is war.

I was working on the story yesterday I am aware of everything you know and more about this situation.

I don't want tax payers money spent on her. Maybe ITN will pay for the family to go out there again. Then all back to their council funded house to eat food paid for by us and preach hate towards us. I don't want her back in my country.

If she dies she dies as the great Drago once said.

 

[Woosh]

would that be because fleccs parents didn`t embrace some violent ideology by a collection of psychopaths out in the Middle East or similar??

the context was the second world war. What happens if your parents were German?
Before the war started, some Britons even moved to Germany to fight for Hitler.
After the war ended, many had the chance to flee the war zone to England, France, USA etc to start a new life.
More recently, we have the Palestine conflict. What would have happened if Israel had lost the Yom Kippur?
Syria was under French administration for a long time. What happened to it is a tragedy.

 

[flecc]

your parents did not have to face the same choice.
Wars create tricky situations. What happens if you/your parents find yourself in the losing camp?

As I said, we just make the best we can of whatever circumstances we find ourselves in. They aren't our choices.

Maybe if Germany had won I'd have ended up succeeding Hitler in command of the Third Reich.

If that sounds ridiculous, remember the Romans conquered Spain, but Spaniards Hadrian and Trajan both ended up as the Roman Emperors in charge of the whole caboodle.

One of them even built us a nice wall, thus doing better than Donald Trump.
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[gray198]

This depends on how a child is defined and when they can make decisions. In this respect we are out of step with most of the rest of the world, even with our European neighbours.

Take the age of consent, seven European countries have it at 15, seven others at 14, and one major country at 13. There's even one at 12 and used to be two. Even in the USA three states have it at 14.

And we are two faced on this issue of when important decisions can be made. Our criminal liability commences at 10, and at 14 there is a major step up in liability for criminal actions. At all those young ages very long terms can be and have been spent in prison.
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and there are a large amount of people in this country wanting to give the vote to 16 year olds. Probably a lot will be saying that at 15 she didn't know what she was doing??

 

[oldgroaner]

Sorry to be back on topic, but here is good news for Tommie and co
https://communist-party.org.uk/britain/2487-britain-should-leave-the-eu-on-wto-terms-communists-propose.html

It's reinforcements for the DUP and the ERG

Sorry, I'm laughing it's like China on small scale, the Communists want to use Captalists to further the cause.
Hilarious! (And to be honest I really wasn't aware they still existed!)

 

[Fingers]

Sorry to be back on topic, but here is good news for Tommie and co
https://communist-party.org.uk/britain/2487-britain-should-leave-the-eu-on-wto-terms-communists-propose.html

It's reinforcements for the DUP and the ERG

Sorry, I'm laughing it's like China on small scale, the Communists want to use Captalists to further the cause.
Hilarious! (And to be honest I really wasn't aware they still existed!)

I suspect a lot goes on without your knowledge.

None so blind as can see.

Open your eyes to the world. It's really not that bad.

 

[gray198]

I take it that she will take her punishment if it comes to that.
We should all respect due process.

she obviously knows how soft our justice system is and will expect a very short sentence of which she will only serve half. Then she will come out go on benefits even though she has contributed nothing. Be pushed up the housing list in front of people working and paying taxes. I think I can see why she wants to come home. She may even get a peerage and end up on some human rights committee being paid shedloads of money. Makes you proud to be British

 

[gray198]

the tone of some posts about this person seem to be symptomatic of Britain today.. Nobody is responsible for what they do . It is always someone else's fault. And nothing that you choose to do should carry any consequences. There is no wonder the country is turning into a cesspit

 

[OxygenJames]

She still supports Islamic State and believes she did nothing wrong. At 15 years she was old enough to know exactly what she was doing. At that age and even younger many of her cultural origins have chosen to migrate thousands of miles alone to Europe as either refugees or economic migrants, showing considerable abilities.

In these circumstances I see no reason for accepting her back.

And as I carefully explained previously, there is no wide acceptance that the Stockholm Syndrome even exists beyond possibly a one to one relationship. By any definition it could not possibly exist between an individual in the UK and a large fighting group in a middle Eastern country in such a way as to get them to up sticks and go there.
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You see no reason for accepting her back. Flecc - so what? If she has a valid passport she has every right to come back. End of.

If in due course she breaks some law - then as I said she will have to deal with that. But until then - you gotta play by the rules.

The fact that she wants to come back........ don't you think that tells you something? Do you not think she will have learned a valuable lesson? But regardless that's not the point. We have to all live by the laws we agree to - otherwise there is nothing but anarchy.

 

[tommie]

the tone of some posts about this person seem to be symptomatic of Britain today.
Nobody is responsible for what they do .
It is always someone else's fault.
And nothing that you choose to do should carry any consequences.
There is no wonder the country is turning into a cesspit

(nailed it, post of the day)

 

[OxygenJames]

This woman has been a member of ISIS for 4 long years, she is showing zero remorse and hasn`t even uttered a word of their condemnation.
This isn`t a holiday camp for the Girl Guides as some in here seem to think. The only reason she is coming crawling back `home` is because that`s her only option.
If ISIS wasn`t getting hammered militarily she would be more than happy to stay put.
These are the type of people that enter the country, indoctrinate the weak-minded and gullible to grab a Transit Van and end the lives of 20 innocents in a London street.
All in the name of Islam.

Yes, lets open the doors and let them all back in.

btw, where were their parents when they were packing their bags - in the 4 years did they attempt to get them back home??

Yes that's a fair comment too. Though I keep coming back to the fact that we can only act based upon the laws we have all agreed. But nonetheless that is a fair comment.....

 

[OxygenJames]

the tone of some posts about this person seem to be symptomatic of Britain today.
Nobody is responsible for what they do .
It is always someone else's fault.
And nothing that you choose to do should carry any consequences.
There is no wonder the country is turning into a cesspit

(nailed it, post of the day)

Well. Tommy. As much as I go along with your posts..... this one I gotta say hang on my friend. I think we're NOT turning into a cesspit for the very reason that you and I are able to talk about this stuff out in the open as it were - and that this lady if and when she comes back - will indeed face whatever consequences are coming her way.

But until then we must play by the rules we have all agreed.

Its what the referendum was all about - establishing the rules. And then once they're established - we live by them. As I said earlier - anything else and all you have is anarchy.

 

[Woosh]

the tone of some posts about this person seem to be symptomatic of Britain today.. Nobody is responsible for what they do . It is always someone else's fault. And nothing that you choose to do should carry any consequences. There is no wonder the country is turning into a cesspit

the tone of some posts about this person seem to be symptomatic of Britain today.
Nobody is responsible for what they do .
It is always someone else's fault.
And nothing that you choose to do should carry any consequences.
There is no wonder the country is turning into a cesspit

(nailed it, post of the day)

so your solution is to turn the clock back to whence you stole an apple, you got shipped to the colonies?

 

[oyster]

Some vox pop broadcast yesterday appeared to indicate that many of the Muslim population of the area would not welcome her back. Various reasons - not least that her actions and current infamy are felt to put the entire Muslim population in a bad light.