Brexit, for once some facts.

[50Hertz]

You do bring to mind some aquintances, who want the roof done on the cheap by a Polish builder while complaining about eu migration. A bit like trump who wants to let his Slovenian wife bring her family to US on immigrant visas while telling others this its heresy. Double standards is the word I believe. Its why I hope for a hard brexit. It will hit those who exploit the system most

I didn’t complain about EU immigration. Stop lying please.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Well they chose Holland to pay less tax instead. Leaving the jobs here.

That is strange because if I was a large multi-national company I would choose the lowest rate available and that isn't the Netherlands. I think there may be more to it than just tax...

 

[50Hertz]

That is strange because if I was a large multi-national company I would choose the lowest rate available and that isn't the Netherlands. I think there may be more to it than just tax...

You aren’t a large multi-national. There is the clue.

 

[wheeler]

Up until the surrender the French were following English orders BTW...

You mean "the French were following British orders".

 

[OxygenJames]

Face it. They have made the administrative move to Holland because they can get away with paying less tax there. It's like a tax haven for them, you know, the tax havens you criticise. The UK are trying to do something about the unfair levels of tax these companies pay and Sony don't like it, so they have gone.

There must be something they like because they are leaving all the jobs here in the UK.

As a point of information - 50% of workers in the Netherlands are part-time (the figure for the UK is 25%).

 

[Woosh]

You aren’t a large multi-national. There is the clue.

The Netherlands charge CT at 25%, the UK 19%

It's not to save money on corporation tax. They need to go where their market is.

 

[OxygenJames]

Do I see here an admission on your part?
They are in oversupply and have driven down hourly rates to an incredibly low level, truly astonishing. That suits me perfectly,
Why did you start exploiting them insead of paying the going rates?

I can't see it from your point of view? a property speculator that exploits vulnerable foreign workers?
To bloody right I can't!

Dishonest business practices exploiting the workers are to blame here , not free movement of people.
Are you paying them illegal rates?
Ask yourself, why was there a shortage of local plumbers?
I worked for both Ideal Standard an Armitage Shanks at the same time, I could read youu chapter and verse about the way dodgy developers have exploited the plumbing trade for years.
Large numbers of building workers had a best been on a few weeks course before fully trained polish workers came on the scene.
There were a lot of cowboys out there creating a considerable problem for companies like ours through shabby work.
Hence when capable trained foreign workers came on the scene they got the jobs
Try your nonsense on somewhere where you can hoodwink the gullible, and because they were vulnerable they were exploited.

You really do not understand basic economics. If you flood an area with workers who are willing to work for less - then they will work for less. End of. Nothing to do with 'dishonest business practices'.

You really are rather deluded when is comes to certain subjects.

 

[50Hertz]

Its why I hope for a hard brexit. It will hit those who exploit the system most

You also know a hard Brexit will cause some people to lose their jobs and you also know that will be catastrophic for them and their families. To wish that on people as some sort of know it all, I told you so, revenge makes you a disgrace and a disgusting individual.

 

[OxygenJames]

Don’t dodge the question with an insult. What is wrong with my business practice of inviting registered traders to tender and choosing the most competitive?

I think your social values are being exposed as fake and being tested. That’s why you are retreating.

OG has some weird ideas when it comes to economics.

 

[OxygenJames]

OG
You trully are cantankerous poster. Your answer to 50hz is astoundingly inflamatory. There is nothing anywhere to suggest anyone was taking advantage of anyone. Working for Armitage Shanks is just so appropriate for you.. You talk crap.
And BTW "polish" workers probably shine things. I think you meant "Polish workers". Idiot.
If you had the slightest hint of humanity you would apologise for your attack on 50. Its a disgrace. You dont know the chap but are willing to suggest he takes advantage of workers. You really are horrible.
You will bring anything into an argument to somehow put down anybody with opposing views.
You are the worst kind of Troller.

Like many on the left OG has to see victims. Without victims his whole narrative about what's wrong breaks down.

Those Polish workers don't see themselves as victims. They're earning twice three times what they would get in Poland.

 

[Woosh]

As a point of information - 50% of workers in the Netherlands are part-time (the figure for the UK is 25%).

UK: 25%
average EU27: 19%
Bulgaria has the lowest rate of part time workers, only 2%.

Part time work seems to be high where there is more mobility and the hourly rate is good.
Switzerland for example has the part time rate of 38.2%.
We are about par with Germany and Belgium.

 

[OxygenJames]

I put work out to tender and then choose the most appropriate based on experience, availability, track record and price. I pay the rate that people offer to work for. Every person I employ is registered and works either for a larger company or on sole trader basis. There is nothing illegal, underhanded or “cash in hand”.

You are such a blinkered person that you immediately assume that dealings are underhanded. The low wages are entirely due to free movement of people. There is an oversupply of trades in the area and this is driving down prices. People are undercutting each other in order to secure work.

I can’t believe what a narrow minded person you are. You are obsessed to the point of it being a sickness.

Bang on.

 

[OxygenJames]

UK: 25%
average EU27: 19%
Bulgaria has the lowest rate of part time workers, only 2%.

I think Germany's is 27%

 

[Fingers]

Massively chippy Ireland minister on politics live atm.

Neate Richmond is a very angry man. Impossible to deal with this in his current mood.

If this is the level of minister in Ireland I’m almost glad for the ones we have got.

Almost.

 

[anotherkiwi]

UK: 25%
average EU27: 19%
Bulgaria has the lowest rate of part time workers, only 2%.

Part time work seems to be high where there is more mobility and the hourly rate is good.
Switzerland for example has the part time rate of 38.2%.
We are about par with Germany and Belgium.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/WDN-20180813-1

A source is helpful

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
You trully are cantankerous poster. Your answer to 50hz is astoundingly inflamatory. There is nothing anywhere to suggest anyone was taking advantage of anyone. Working for Armitage Shanks is just so appropriate for you.. You talk crap.
And BTW "polish" workers probably shine things. I think you meant "Polish workers". Idiot.
If you had the slightest hint of humanity you would apologise for your attack on 50. Its a disgrace. You dont know the chap but are willing to suggest he takes advantage of workers. You really are horrible.
You will bring anything into an argument to somehow put down anybody with opposing views.
You are the worst kind of Troller.

Still here?, and still getting involved in things you don't understand as usual, especially on the subject of trolling, when you never do anything else.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

If I want 9 x roofing jobs doing on houses and I put that out to tender to 4 contractors / roofers all of which I know are capable of doing the work, all of whom are legitimate companies or sole traders and I choose the most competitive quote, what’s wrong with that? These are registered traders, not cash in hand jobs. This is totally down to the Polish guys being willing to work for less in order to get the work. What they quote and offer to work for is far better than they can achieve in Poland. They are very happy, the U.K. guys not so much so, their rates are being driven into the weeds.

So don’t go around throwing accusations of dodgy dealings about. This is totally compliant with the employment and tax laws. The situation has been created in its entirety by free movement.

Do you honestly expect me to reject a quotation on the basis of it being too cheap and insist on paying more than quoted? Do you do this with the Chinese $h!t you buy? Pay a bit more because Chinese workers have poor working conditions and are exploited? No you don’t because you are just the same as every other fake socialist.

Indeed, but I also don't 'go around' blaming the eu for all my alleged misfortune or brag about ripping of council tax payers, as you do. Neither did I vote leave. Happily we're not all unprincipled small time property speculators. You may find this hard to comprehend, but it (and brexit) "doesn't have to be exclusively about the next petty swindle

 

[50Hertz]

Indeed, but I also dont 'go around' blaming the eu for not being able to exploit (council) tax payers more or for all my other alleged misfortune. I also didn't vote leave. Happily, were not all unprincipled property speculators.

I don’t know what you are talking about regarding blaming the EU for not being able to exploit tax payers. I don’t think I said that, please explain.

I voted leave, but I’m not too aloof to admit that I made a bad choice, one which I now regret. I was gullible and was taken in by liars. It won’t happen again. One chance.

What is unprincipled about my property development? Investing as I do carries a degree of risk. I could lose money. If I wanted to be safe, I could leave the money that I have earned in a bank account. They could then invested in property on my behalf. Pretty much the same as they probably do with your money. I suppose that makes us both unprincipled property speculators.

Somebody needs to build houses, because there are not enough. If I am going to risk my money, and it is a real risk, I want some enhanced return for it, otherwise I may as well just leave my money in the bank, probably the same as you do, and let the banks invest and speculate in property on my behalf.

I really do not know what is wrong with you. I pay tax, I pay national insurance, I employ legitimate and registered traders who in turn pay tax & NI, I provide employment and I provide housing. Someone who hates that has to be sick in the head.

 

[flecc]

As a point of information - 50% of workers in the Netherlands are part-time (the figure for the UK is 25%).

Lucky sods, the Dutch. All that leisure time, fantastic cycle infrastructure and almost no hills.

What's not to like.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Don’t dodge the question with an insult. What is wrong with my business practice of inviting registered traders to tender and choosing the most competitive?

I think your social values are being exposed as fake and being tested. That’s why you are retreating.

It is difficult to argue with someone's who's parameters for right and wrong is narrowly defined by self interest and exploitation. I find that morbid and frankly boring. I have Polish friends who mean a great deal more to me than a sub contract.