Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

There is a degree of trolling, and some of it is a deliberate attempt to sabotage the thread. But not all of it, there is also in between more nuanced conversation.were all minnows propelled by events. We argue as if it effect the outcome of anything,when it doesn't. I suspect brexiters denial will only wear off after a post hard brexit crash or second referendum, so don't take the fethisism too personally

Good points, throughout we have sought to find something to indicate that there is merit in the notion of Brexit.
Perhaps one day someone will come up with something more than wishful thinking?
I have never doubted that somehow an economic solution is likely to be cobbled together that will be less favourable than at present.
To me that is of secondary importance to the social and political long term losses that isolationism from Europe with cost the nation.
We will suffer a long period of decline and worse likely public unrest.

We do not have anything resembling a competent government to face the challenges ahead and the disruption we face means Brexit is far too risky for any benefit that might come out of it.

 

[OxygenJames]

I wouldn't cal it ' - balls -'.

No I don't imagine you would. You and some others here call it recklessness and stupidity. And thus we have ourselves an excellent platform for a discussion.

 

[Woosh]

No I don't imagine you would. You and some others here call it recklessness and stupidity. And thus we have ourselves an excellent platform for a discussion.

I have never used these words, preferring a discussion on facts.

This post on the Guardian is a better reply to your 'having balls' argument:

With political discourse in this hallucinogenic phase, the gap between metaphor and reality is beginning to yawn. Among the latest examples is the idea of a “clean break” Brexit. In an editorial on 15 December, the Sun used the phrase to welcome the prospect of leaving without any kind of withdrawal agreement. A week later it returned to the theme, suggesting “we are better off negotiating … after a clean break, with our £39bn and our leverage intact”. At the same time, the polling company YouGov asked respondents if they believed that “Anything less than a clean break from the EU will be a betrayal of the referendum vote”. Nationally, 48% agreed, and 35% disagreed. On New Year’s Day, Mick Hume, editor-at-large of Spiked,wrote that “a No Deal, clean-break Brexit is the only available option which comes close to fulfilling the demand of 17.4 million Leave voters”.

“Clean break” is a familiar idiom: a ready-made shorthand. According to theMacmillan Dictionary, it means “a sudden complete end to something such as a relationship or a period of time spent in a place”. The example sentence is as follows: After the divorce, I decided to make a clean break and moved to a new town. This is metaphorical, of course. Concretely, a clean break refers to a physical rupture – of a bone, or piece of wood or stone – that leaves behind no fragments or jagged edges.

And it’s easy to see the appeal of the metaphor. It suggests a new start, unencumbered by the problems of the past. The opposite of a “messy break-up”. But can it be appropriately transferred to Brexit? It should be pretty clear that we aren’t ending the period of time we’ve been spending off the coast of France. So the geographical usage is out. The Sun, and people sympathetic to its position, must instead be thinking of relationships. But here’s the thing: it will not be possible for the UK to end all contact with the EU. European countries will still be our economic, diplomatic and cultural partners. Our populations are intertwined. There is no way to delete Europe’s number and unfriend it on Facebook. The relationship will certainly continue; what will change is the conduct of it, which will probably become more contested and bureaucratic outside the purpose-built structures of the EU.




https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/04/lie-clean-break-brexit-politicians-britain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Danidl]

The Gove speaks
"Michael Gove (May 2016): "If we vote Leave, then we're in a position to dictate the terms in Britain's economic interests."

And speaks again now
“It’s a grim but inescapable fact that in the event of a no-deal Brexit… tariffs on beef and sheep meat would be above 40%” Environment Secretary Michael Gove warns of problems for farmers in the event of no-deal, and urges MPs to back the Prime Minister’s Brexit deal.

Somewhere the notion that we will be able to "Dictate the terms in Britain's economic interests" seems to have become inconvenient and forgotten.

Now we are collectively begging for whatever deal the EU is prepared to give.

Not a word of a lie in either statement, the UK still is in a position to dictate the terms of anything they want, but of course, the 27 can equally refuse listen and or to obey. King Canute could dictate the terms for the tides, ,but some how they failed to heed his message.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

No I don't imagine you would. You and some others here call it recklessness and stupidity. And thus we have ourselves an excellent platform for a discussion.

of course a premise such as "brexit requires balls" is an excellent platform for an informed discussion. I mean, we could discuss the pros and cons of having testicles. That would be very insightful. really get us into the thick of brexit. You get my drift?

 

[Danidl]

Thanks, i'll have a look at a Raleigh motus (I'm sure it is good quality, but once one has acclimatised to something expensive but really wonderful like a rohloff its hard to go back to say a shimano nexus)
the welcome relief bit makes sense. my fantasy is that some other contributors are retired or live quiet lives lacking adequate stimulation and need a space to vent. happily my daytime job gives me enough stress. aside from this (or renaming the thread Brexit, lets for once have a dig at each other) im sure any of the sane contributors must realise that a more rational discussion would shed more light? But I guess that wouldn't provide a catharsis

A long time ago, I calculated that the three parts of ebike cost about the same. The bike proper, the battery and the motor. Therefore a 2k ebike is actually a 750 quid machine. Once one goes above that price on a bike, it is starting to become exotic. carbon fibre or Titanium . really low friction wheels, shaving grammes off the frame, while having adaquate strength.
Now the extra power available from the motor means that it is no longer a compelling need to shave off this weight. Now I got the Raleigh,and it is an excellent machine. Not light but very sturdy. Equally any of the other models from other manufacturers at around the same price point will be give good service.
My quip about éclairs was in the same vein. People can obsess about a few ounces on the bike frame, while ignoring the extra kilo on their own mainfrane.

 

[Woosh]

A long time ago, I calculated that the three parts of ebike cost about the same. The bike proper, the battery and the motor. Therefore a 2k ebike is actually a 750 quid machine.

If you take your £2k bike as an example, you'd get a lot more than 500WH if you spend £700 on a battery without the branding logo.
Not so long ago, if you want a quality bike, you have to buy it factory made. Not anymore. You can easily get a high quality kits for less than one third of the cost of your bike.

 

[Zlatan]

Oyster
Power out put with humans and ebikes must be in respect to time.
We can use a 400wh battery in an hour or 8. We could charge it in 2 hrs or 24.
When a person is pedalling on a bike and lets say they are lighting a 100w light bulb they are producing 100wh power after an hour. They are priducing energy at the rate of 100wh per hour. In 3 hours they could have charged a 300wh battery.

If they reduced rate to 50wh per hour it would take 6...Its important we look at our rates per hour.. (or any time)
Essentially you were correct re wh not being per hour, oviously. But you get my drift introducing per hour with regards a person sat on a bike.
You couldnt say anyone was a top cyclist because they could produce 400wh.Given time anyone could. They are top cyclists because they can produce 400wh per hour , some seemingly endlessly.

On the averages. I agree it was sloppy thinking to suggest raising average is not a viable concept. It plainly is, perhaps a misguided one in many respects but not a stupid one as implied.

 

[flecc]

No Deal would mean an immediate saving of £39 billion

No it wouldn't. There's an £11 billions legal committment we have to meet, some of it affecting UK citizens.
.

 

[flecc]

People can obsess about a few ounces on the bike frame, while ignoring the extra kilo on their own mainfrane.

And they are justified. Within the normal span a body's musculature is automatically adjusted to ones weight and size, through living with that weight and the exercise it compels.

Just look at the world's strongest man competitions, all the competitors are fat as well as strong.
.

 

[tommie]

No it wouldn't. There's an £11 billions legal committment we have to meet, some of it affecting UK citizens.
.

Wrong again!,

in fact legally the EU would owe us £10Bn,

please read the text here by Martin Howe QC

http://www.elphicke.com/downloads/the-withdrawal-of-the-uk-from-the-eu--analysis-of-potential-financial-liabilities.pdf

 

[jonathan.agnew]

A long time ago, I calculated that the three parts of ebike cost about the same. The bike proper, the battery and the motor. Therefore a 2k ebike is actually a 750 quid machine. Once one goes above that price on a bike, it is starting to become exotic. carbon fibre or Titanium . really low friction wheels, shaving grammes off the frame, while having adaquate strength.
Now the extra power available from the motor means that it is no longer a compelling need to shave off this weight. Now I got the Raleigh,and it is an excellent machine. Not light but very sturdy. Equally any of the other models from other manufacturers at around the same price point will be give good service.
My quip about éclairs was in the same vein. People can obsess about a few ounces on the bike frame, while ignoring the extra kilo on their own mainfrane.

I see what you mean, but a snag is design. Bike geometry, more so on a non electric bike, is I think more art than science. A few weeks ago I was cycling through Amsterdam on a friend's prewar sunbeam - it felt weightless, supple, as if propelled by its own momentum, not me. And all on low tech tubes. Most bikes don't provide this at all, and for me electric assistance unless extremely subtle would compromise that kinetic feeling of floating along as if by magic

 

[tommie]

Which part of the above is surprising?. That the mere removal of a few words from a passport is earth shaking?. Or that there would be solidarity within the EU when one member is likely to suffer financially from an action by a third party?.
Ireland needed the backstop to apply to the island of ireland.the UK decided to extend it to cover the entire UK,in order to placate 10 NI MPs. The UK HoC might baulk at that. So who is responsible?.

With friends like this in the EU i`m sure you`ll be grand...?

EU preparing to clobber Ireland on Tax after Brexit

Any illusions Ireland might have had that the EU is going to reward them in some way for being its Brexit patsy have evaporated today with the news that the European Commission is pressing ahead with its plan to abolish national vetoes over a swathe of taxation issues. Removing one of the last major hurdles towards an EU-wide tax policy…


Ireland will be particularly hard hit by the changes as their competitive corporation tax rate is central to their impressive growth rates. The EU does not like tax competition or regulatory competition because they expose its own glaring inefficiencies. Hence why their long-term goal is for unaccountable commissars to set all the taxes for 500 million people – and collect them too. It’s only a matter of time before Ireland starts to feel the costs of the EU far more heavily than the benefits…

I wonder when the penny is going to drop in the Irish mindset just what the innocuous phrase "Tax Harmonisation" will really mean for them??

 

[OxygenJames]

of course a premise such as "brexit requires balls" is an excellent platform for an informed discussion. I mean, we could discuss the pros and cons of having testicles. That would be very insightful. really get us into the thick of brexit. You get my drift?

Excellent muse Jonathan.

'Balls' was - of course - meant metaphorically.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

With friends like this in the EU i`m sure you`ll be grand...?

EU preparing to clobber Ireland on Tax after Brexit

Any illusions Ireland might have had that the EU is going to reward them in some way for being its Brexit patsy have evaporated today with the news that the European Commission is pressing ahead with its plan to abolish national vetoes over a swathe of taxation issues. Removing one of the last major hurdles towards an EU-wide tax policy…


Ireland will be particularly hard hit by the changes as their competitive corporation tax rate is central to their impressive growth rates. The EU does not like tax competition or regulatory competition because they expose its own glaring inefficiencies. Hence why their long-term goal is for unaccountable commissars to set all the taxes for 500 million people – and collect them too. It’s only a matter of time before Ireland starts to feel the costs of the EU far more heavily than the benefits…

I wonder when the penny is going to drop in the Irish mindset just what the innocuous phrase "Tax Harmonisation" will really mean for them??

Do you really think attracting tax dodging multinationals, on paper, with ultra low corporation tax is the way to develop a skills base tertiary economy and responsible tax base?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Excellent muse Jonathan.

'Balls' was - of course - meant metaphorically.

As was my post, saying brexit requires courage is about as informative as wishing someone a happy day

 

[tommie]

Do you really think attracting tax dodging multinationals, on paper, with ultra low corporation tax is the way to develop a skills base tertiary economy and responsible tax base?

Ask Dan that one !!

 

[flecc]

Wrong again!,

in fact legally the EU would owe us £10Bn,

please read the text here by Martin Howe QC

http://www.elphicke.com/downloads/the-withdrawal-of-the-uk-from-the-eu--analysis-of-potential-financial-liabilities.pdf

Seen it before and I don't accept it's realistic. In practical terms if we don't meet our committment we will suffer, particularly with regard to our credit rating.
.

 

[Danidl]

Ask Dan that one !!

Compare economic activity in RoI and NI in order to get the true picture. According to David McWilliams, the economic activity south of the Border is 30 times that of the North. , so we must have been something correct.For those mathematically challenged, that is a performance 10 times better and sustained.
A significant part is because the Civil Service,through its semi state development wings has picked winners in electronics and pharma and has actively managed the process .
Our government is acutely aware of the dangers of windfall tax receipts,and is taking steps

 

[tommie]

Compare economic activity in RoI and NI in order to get the true picture. According to David McWilliams, the economic activity south of the Border is 30 times that of the North. , so we must have been something correct.For those mathematically challenged, that is a performance 10 times better and sustained.
A significant part is because the Civil Service,through its semi state development wings has picked winners in electronics and pharma and has actively managed the process .
Our government is acutely aware of the dangers of windfall tax receipts,and is taking steps

Looking forward to welcoming Google et al to Belfast when we offer the 12.5% Corporation Tax rate !!