Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
what is wrong with people here..!!??

Of course it`s solvable..

TWO options, both to the benefit of the UK and ROI

1/ The ROI also exit the EU, same terms as the UK

2/ Return politically to the UK and give up this archaic notion of some sort of a peasants Republic on the periphery of Europe, where if truth be told the EU doesn`t want them in the first place.

Did you have an extra bowl of stupid this morning 'tommie'?

There is a conundrum that people in NI need to resolve and that is, 'Are you Irish or British?' 1690 was a long time ago but for some, it seems they cannot forget that era and they continue to taunt the nationalist population by re-living the battles etc, and glorying in some imagined ethnic superiority at regular intervals.

Most civilised countries around the globe have managed to overcome ethnic differences in their society and move on but in NI, half the population seem entrenched in views inconsistent with those of the EU, an EU that a majority there voted to remain in!

Tell us what the answer is 'tommie', if you know, but don't suggest that the free state should exit the EU just to satisfy the Orange Order DUP. You might also wish to reconsider your version of truth as to suggest that the EU didn't want the UK in the first place isn't really true - General De Gaulle certainly didn't want the UK in the common market in the 1960s but times changed and we were allowed entry in 1973 - today, we are very much wanted!

Because times change, the DUP needs to adopt some politics consistent with the 21st century, based on equality for all. Irish or British 'tommie'?

Tom
 
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tommie

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You might also wish to reconsider your version of truth as to suggest that the EU didn't want the UK in the first place isn't really true
It`s evening, and you`re becoming confused - point that part out to me please, and while you're at it try and answer that question i posed yesterday if it`s not too much trouble ?!

I`ll wait...

and in the meantime maybe you should digest this as we will be the tail wagging the dog from now on...... oki-doki?!

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/dup-sets-vision-influence-governments-uk-wide-policy-not-just-northern-ireland-issues/
 

Danidl

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It`s evening, and you`re becoming confused - point that part out to me please, and while you're at it try and answer that question i posed yesterday if it`s not too much trouble ?!

I`ll wait...

and in the meantime maybe you should digest this as we will be the tail wagging the dog from now on...... oki-doki?!

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/dup-sets-vision-influence-governments-uk-wide-policy-not-just-northern-ireland-issues/
Be careful what you wish for... you may just get it. The backlash from the duped ( pun intended) might be more than you want .
 
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Danidl

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Did you have an extra bowl of stupid this morning 'tommie'?

There is a conundrum that people in NI need to resolve and that is, 'Are you Irish or British?' 1690 was a long time ago but for some, it seems they cannot forget that era and they continue to taunt the nationalist population by re-living the battles etc, and glorying in some imagined ethnic superiority at regular intervals.

Most civilised countries around the globe have managed to overcome ethnic differences in their society and move on but in NI, half the population seem entrenched in views inconsistent with those of the EU, an EU that a majority there voted to remain in!

Tell us what the answer is 'tommie', if you know, but don't suggest that the free state should exit the EU just to satisfy the Orange Order DUP. You might also wish to reconsider your version of truth as to suggest that the EU didn't want the UK in the first place isn't really true - General De Gaulle certainly didn't want the UK in the common market in the 1960s but times changed and we were allowed entry in 1973 - today, we are very much wanted!

Because times change, the DUP needs to adopt some politics consistent with the 21st century, based on equality for all. Irish or British 'tommie'?

Tom
Ethnic? I don't think so. Most of the planters in NI were Scots and they are racially the same. It's almost an accident of birth which religious tribe one was born into. In defence of Tommie it is very very difficult to live in such a divided community and see the others point of view. It is a measure of John Humes greatness that he could.
 
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tommie

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Well, well, a Labour MP i agree with, Kate Hoey MP for Vauxhall..!

Leo Varadkar needs to stop the hypocrisy and remember who Ireland’s true friends are

Hypocrisy, the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case, is a pernicious trait.


Sinn Fein is a party that used to be anti-EU and whose members campaigned for a No vote in Ireland’s Lisbon Treaty referendum of 2009. Gerry Adams, stepping down after 34 years as Leader of Sinn Fein, claims Republicanism is advancing when clearly it is not. If we look at the combined Nationalist/Republican vote at the 2017 UK General Election, it was 41.1% compared to the combined Sinn Fein-SDLP performance at elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2011 when it was also 41.1%. So, in six years, a total advancement of exactly zero. Adams lost his vicious sectarian war and no matter what he says he can be seen as a failure.


We can expect hypocrisy from the de facto leader of the IRA, but to come from the leader of the Republic of Ireland is another matter altogether. Yet we now have Leo Varadkar, the Irish Taoiseach, effectively demanding that Northern Ireland remain subject to the rules and regulations of the Single Market and the Customs Union after the UK has left the European Union.


It is not surprising that the Taoiseach is increasing his demands of the UK Government. He possibly faces an election next year and wants to appeal to those who might be thinking of voting Sinn Fein who have at the top of their wish list a united Ireland, and who see the decision of the UK people to vote to Leave the EU as their opportunity to advance this cause.


The Republicans are being helped by Leo Varadkar, who seems to have very quickly forgotten his liberal views. The hypocrisy of all shades of Nationalism who “fought” the British Empire and now so cringingly want to be part of an enlarged, anti-democratic EU empire is astounding.


The idea that Northern Ireland should stay in the Customs Union and the internal market while the rest of the UK leaves is a total non-starter and I am glad that David Davis ruled this out so immediately and strongly. What upsets most people in Northern Ireland, even if they voted to Remain, is seeing the EU Commission use the Belfast Agreement as a tool for their demands in the negotiations.


Even more shockingly, the unelected Commissioners use the ‘threat to the peace process’ as another attempt at blackmailing the UK. The threat to the peace process won’t come from those people in the UK (including in Northern Ireland) who voted Leave last June. They haven’t got weapons and material to make bombs; they aren’t the ones trying to divide people.


The EU bureaucrats pontificate piously about the border as if they know what they are talking about. Let me remind them of the terror and ethnic cleansing that was inflicted on Protestant farmers and the brave Catholic and Protestant soldiers, policemen and women who were slaughtered in their hundreds along the border. What do they really know of the Troubles? How dare they lecture us.


The Northern Ireland Affairs Select Committee is currently undertaking an inquiry into the land border. A recurrent theme of practically everyone we see, especially from other non-EU countries which have borders with EU countries, is that – if there is political will to make it work – cross-border trade can be seamless.


Leo Varadkar would be much better remembering that Ireland has more trade with Northern Ireland and Great Britain than any other EU country and that most exports to outside the UK go through English ports. Indeed, his country is totally dependent on UK trade, so he should be careful what he wishes for. He needs to remember that there has been a Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland long before we joined the Common Market. He needs to remember that Irish citizens in the UK have always had special status (they could even vote in the 2016 Referendum) and will continue to enjoy this unique privilege. He should remember too that the UK bailed the Republic out with £7 billion during the credit crisis.


So let’s be blunt: no more hypocrisy, Leo. You need to face reality, recognise who the true friends of the Republic are and stop doing the bidding of the EU in their increasingly desperate attempts to play hard ball with us.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Well, well, a Labour MP i agree with, Kate Hoey MP for Vauxhall..!

Leo Varadkar needs to stop the hypocrisy and remember who Ireland’s true friends are

Hypocrisy, the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case, is a pernicious trait.


Sinn Fein is a party that used to be anti-EU and whose members campaigned for a No vote in Ireland’s Lisbon Treaty referendum of 2009. Gerry Adams, stepping down after 34 years as Leader of Sinn Fein, claims Republicanism is advancing when clearly it is not. If we look at the combined Nationalist/Republican vote at the 2017 UK General Election, it was 41.1% compared to the combined Sinn Fein-SDLP performance at elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2011 when it was also 41.1%. So, in six years, a total advancement of exactly zero. Adams lost his vicious sectarian war and no matter what he says he can be seen as a failure.


We can expect hypocrisy from the de facto leader of the IRA, but to come from the leader of the Republic of Ireland is another matter altogether. Yet we now have Leo Varadkar, the Irish Taoiseach, effectively demanding that Northern Ireland remain subject to the rules and regulations of the Single Market and the Customs Union after the UK has left the European Union.


It is not surprising that the Taoiseach is increasing his demands of the UK Government. He possibly faces an election next year and wants to appeal to those who might be thinking of voting Sinn Fein who have at the top of their wish list a united Ireland, and who see the decision of the UK people to vote to Leave the EU as their opportunity to advance this cause.


The Republicans are being helped by Leo Varadkar, who seems to have very quickly forgotten his liberal views. The hypocrisy of all shades of Nationalism who “fought” the British Empire and now so cringingly want to be part of an enlarged, anti-democratic EU empire is astounding.


The idea that Northern Ireland should stay in the Customs Union and the internal market while the rest of the UK leaves is a total non-starter and I am glad that David Davis ruled this out so immediately and strongly. What upsets most people in Northern Ireland, even if they voted to Remain, is seeing the EU Commission use the Belfast Agreement as a tool for their demands in the negotiations.


Even more shockingly, the unelected Commissioners use the ‘threat to the peace process’ as another attempt at blackmailing the UK. The threat to the peace process won’t come from those people in the UK (including in Northern Ireland) who voted Leave last June. They haven’t got weapons and material to make bombs; they aren’t the ones trying to divide people.


The EU bureaucrats pontificate piously about the border as if they know what they are talking about. Let me remind them of the terror and ethnic cleansing that was inflicted on Protestant farmers and the brave Catholic and Protestant soldiers, policemen and women who were slaughtered in their hundreds along the border. What do they really know of the Troubles? How dare they lecture us.


The Northern Ireland Affairs Select Committee is currently undertaking an inquiry into the land border. A recurrent theme of practically everyone we see, especially from other non-EU countries which have borders with EU countries, is that – if there is political will to make it work – cross-border trade can be seamless.


Leo Varadkar would be much better remembering that Ireland has more trade with Northern Ireland and Great Britain than any other EU country and that most exports to outside the UK go through English ports. Indeed, his country is totally dependent on UK trade, so he should be careful what he wishes for. He needs to remember that there has been a Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland long before we joined the Common Market. He needs to remember that Irish citizens in the UK have always had special status (they could even vote in the 2016 Referendum) and will continue to enjoy this unique privilege. He should remember too that the UK bailed the Republic out with £7 billion during the credit crisis.


So let’s be blunt: no more hypocrisy, Leo. You need to face reality, recognise who the true friends of the Republic are and stop doing the bidding of the EU in their increasingly desperate attempts to play hard ball with us.
It should be obvious even to you that the best deal for everyone is to remain in the EU
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Well, well, a Labour MP i agree with, Kate Hoey MP for Vauxhall..!

Leo Varadkar needs to stop the hypocrisy and remember who Ireland’s true friends are

Hypocrisy, the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case, is a pernicious trait.


Sinn Fein is a party that used to be anti-EU and whose members campaigned for a No vote in Ireland’s Lisbon Treaty referendum of 2009. Gerry Adams, stepping down after 34 years as Leader of Sinn Fein, claims Republicanism is advancing when clearly it is not. If we look at the combined Nationalist/Republican vote at the 2017 UK General Election, it was 41.1% compared to the combined Sinn Fein-SDLP performance at elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2011 when it was also 41.1%. So, in six years, a total advancement of exactly zero. Adams lost his vicious sectarian war and no matter what he says he can be seen as a failure.


We can expect hypocrisy from the de facto leader of the IRA, but to come from the leader of the Republic of Ireland is another matter altogether. Yet we now have Leo Varadkar, the Irish Taoiseach, effectively demanding that Northern Ireland remain subject to the rules and regulations of the Single Market and the Customs Union after the UK has left the European Union.


It is not surprising that the Taoiseach is increasing his demands of the UK Government. He possibly faces an election next year and wants to appeal to those who might be thinking of voting Sinn Fein who have at the top of their wish list a united Ireland, and who see the decision of the UK people to vote to Leave the EU as their opportunity to advance this cause.


The Republicans are being helped by Leo Varadkar, who seems to have very quickly forgotten his liberal views. The hypocrisy of all shades of Nationalism who “fought” the British Empire and now so cringingly want to be part of an enlarged, anti-democratic EU empire is astounding.


The idea that Northern Ireland should stay in the Customs Union and the internal market while the rest of the UK leaves is a total non-starter and I am glad that David Davis ruled this out so immediately and strongly. What upsets most people in Northern Ireland, even if they voted to Remain, is seeing the EU Commission use the Belfast Agreement as a tool for their demands in the negotiations.


Even more shockingly, the unelected Commissioners use the ‘threat to the peace process’ as another attempt at blackmailing the UK. The threat to the peace process won’t come from those people in the UK (including in Northern Ireland) who voted Leave last June. They haven’t got weapons and material to make bombs; they aren’t the ones trying to divide people.


The EU bureaucrats pontificate piously about the border as if they know what they are talking about. Let me remind them of the terror and ethnic cleansing that was inflicted on Protestant farmers and the brave Catholic and Protestant soldiers, policemen and women who were slaughtered in their hundreds along the border. What do they really know of the Troubles? How dare they lecture us.


The Northern Ireland Affairs Select Committee is currently undertaking an inquiry into the land border. A recurrent theme of practically everyone we see, especially from other non-EU countries which have borders with EU countries, is that – if there is political will to make it work – cross-border trade can be seamless.


Leo Varadkar would be much better remembering that Ireland has more trade with Northern Ireland and Great Britain than any other EU country and that most exports to outside the UK go through English ports. Indeed, his country is totally dependent on UK trade, so he should be careful what he wishes for. He needs to remember that there has been a Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland long before we joined the Common Market. He needs to remember that Irish citizens in the UK have always had special status (they could even vote in the 2016 Referendum) and will continue to enjoy this unique privilege. He should remember too that the UK bailed the Republic out with £7 billion during the credit crisis.


So let’s be blunt: no more hypocrisy, Leo. You need to face reality, recognise who the true friends of the Republic are and stop doing the bidding of the EU in their increasingly desperate attempts to play hard ball with us.
I know this was not your writing and that it is a report you are quoting so I dont want to haul you up on what is anothers flippant, incorrect crass and utterly ridiculous article. If this is what passes for informed comment in England, then seriously god help us.

All references to SF are utterly irrelevant. They are not in government in any part of Ireland. FG , whatever about FF have never had any truck with them. The core vote for FG is about as alien to SF as is possible to be.... Enough said.

Neither Leo nor Simon nor Enda previously have veered in anyway from the positions they and the Irish people ( RoI) have adopted from day 1 post Brexit. It is a position strongly shared by a large majority in the south and maybe even a majority in the North. The only difference being that Enda would have appeared more pliable. The EU Commission position regarding Ireland's position reflects the input that Endas government . Not the other way around.
The comments about ethic cleansing etc would be so laughable except its so serious, France, germany, spain belgium, etc etc have had exactly the same types of problems in their overseas empires, some even more recent ..Rwanda the Balkans had massive runoff problems in middle europe.
That old chestnut about unelected Commissioners is just lazy. They are just as unelected as the british pm, any member of the british cabinet.. or the irish one at that. Or the lord majors of most towns etc. Or high court judges ..

There has been a common travel area between the UK and RoI, . Why ? without analysis this is pointless... Anyone born before 1949, and anyone whose parent was born before 1922 was eligible for uk passports. There was a quid pro quo, the irish government allowed the uk admiralty surveying rights up to the high water mark. Prior to 22 it was the same jurisdiction, and from then until we both entered the eec, it was in englands interest to employ irish navies for the underground, the tatie fields of scotland, the motorways , the war factories and the reconstruction. After joining the the EEC, there was no reason to change as we were both part of the same system. England has done well from Irish labour.
But for the first time since 1801, ireland and england will be in different systems.
We do remember that the UK was the first external country to help shore up our state finances, we do note that it was a loan and it was also paid back with interest. There would well have been an element of self interest there as a number of British people and corporations have extensive financial interests here.
Have I left anything out... Oh yes the ports,.. yes our exports do go through ports in england providing employment there and a service to us. If we need to go direct to france, then so be it. ..one of the irish companies has brought another ship for daily sailing not triweekly..
 
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tommie

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I don't know why I bothered.. Brian Lucey from TCD , Economist did a much better and succinct response line by line....
Yes i found his blog on that, nothing more than a character assassination of the Labour MP
and from this excerpt can he be this stupid and gullible at the same time...?


"It is Kate. As, we shall see, is threathening, misleading and so on.

Sinn Fein is a party that used to be anti-EU and whose members campaigned for a No vote in Ireland’s Lisbon Treaty referendum of 2009.

Yes indeed. And isn’t it great that they have, along with ditching the military overtones, come further to the mainstream? Unlike, say, the British Labour Party"

Yeah, right Brian, don`t give up the day job!
 

Danidl

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Yes i found his blog on that, nothing more than a character assassination of the Labour MP
and from this excerpt can he be this stupid and gullible at the same time...?


"It is Kate. As, we shall see, is threathening, misleading and so on.

Sinn Fein is a party that used to be anti-EU and whose members campaigned for a No vote in Ireland’s Lisbon Treaty referendum of 2009.

Yes indeed. And isn’t it great that they have, along with ditching the military overtones, come further to the mainstream? Unlike, say, the British Labour Party"

Yeah, right Brian, don`t give up the day job!
You might call it character assassination, but he used a novel approach... Identifying facts and writing them down. If a person writes an article and quotes objective facts in furtherance of their position, it helps if they are true.

Now the SF arguement, he is factually correct. Whether he will turn out to correct into the future is more worrying. On a number of occassions the SF leadership have used words like the "armed struggle is over" . .. and I am sure it is for that generation ,who came of age in 1970. But they will have no control over their grandchildren... And this concerns me. This younger generation might revel in the glamour of an historical view, ignore the horrors, and if the future is not bright, use that as a justification to revisit "the armed struggle" . We had a glimpse of that last week at the SF conference.
 
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Danidl

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This article taken from the irish times of today may help provide background. For those in the UK, who have not seen the film of the same name Michael Collins was a leading member of the first Irish parliament in 1922 and was the leader of the delegation which negotiated the irish treaty of independence with Lloyd Georges government. A faction in the first Dail disputed the conclusions, and started a brutal civil war . Towards the end of which Michael Collins was killed.
CHRIS JOHNS

I’d heard of Michael Collins before I moved to Ireland through my Irish grandmother who, with a father from Clonakilty, was convinced she was related to someone who played a major role in the formation of modern Ireland.

Hence, I was amused to learn of a family legend that claimed we were linked to a long-dead figure from Ireland’s revolutionary past.

It’s only through living here for the past three decades that I began to know anything of the reality of Collins in particular and Ireland in general. One of the many things I learned is that Irish interest in Britain is not reciprocated. I was ignorant before I came here and most of my countrymen remain so today.

It is to the discredit of the British government that they continue a baleful tradition of assuming things about foreigners that have few roots in fact.

It’s partly about history. The fiction that Britain joined an economic union in 1973 and was subsequently shocked by the discovery of a political heart beating at Europe’s core is maintained in every discussion of Brexit.

There is no awareness either of history or the deeply held continental view that politics comes first. It’s not a belief in politics versus economics but more that unless the politics are right, prosperity is always under threat. The political primacy of ever-closer union has always been visible and readily apparent to anyone who has ever read the first chapter of any European history book.

Every British negotiator in the run-up to 1973 knew about Europe’s politics. They were confronted with reality every time they met their counterparts at the negotiating table.

And they were properly briefed by the British civil service. Many high-profile British politicians, including (Tory) prime minister Ted Heath and (Labour, ex-communist) chancellor Denis Healey had distinguished second World War records and experiences that meant they had views wholly aligned with Europe’s federalists. But too many of them, aware of the visceral hostility to Europe running through many members of the two main political parties, played down the political truth and spoke only of the economics.

Left also ignores facts
The British public was told, repeatedly, that Europe in practice meant only a free trade zone. All the rest, it was asserted, was continental waffling. The Tory right has campaigned against Europe for the subsequent 40-plus years, sinking ever deeper into an empire-centric nostalgia as rooted in historical fact as my grandmother’s blood links to Michael Collins.

Parts of the Labour Party have been as deluded, but from a different perspective: the EU is a capitalist conspiracy against workers. This thinking leads directly to the sight, this week, of Jeremy Corbyn voting alongside David Davis for departure from the customs union.

The left also ignores facts: workers’ rights enshrined in EU law and the awesome gift of freedom of movement (not least to where the jobs are).

An awareness of Irish history – even a nodding acquaintance – would help British politicians appreciate what happened to Collins, the first and last Irish politician to sign up to a hard Border. The idea that Leo Varadkar, or anybody else in this State, would under any circumstances sign up to another hard Border displays so much ignorance, so much arrogance, so much stupidity that I am left wondering about all those stereotypes of my fellow Brits – stereotypes that I have wearily tried to reject and counter over the past 30 years.

Brexit has poisoned British political life and it now threatens something similar for relations between the UK and Ireland.

Being a Brit in Ireland has mostly been a smooth experience for this immigrant. The cultural differences between the two islands run deeper than many of us care to admit, but Ireland does a terrific job of assimilation.

First time ever
It may be coincidence but I was, for the first time ever, the other day told to “F*** off back to where you come from” (I never lost the accent). Was this a small Brexit effect?

Ignorance of history and zero appetite for the details of European law have combined to produce the current chaos. How can the British not realise that a customs union logically and legally necessitates a hard Border between those inside and outside that union?

It really is as simple as that. And how can they not realise what the re-emergence of such a Border actually means? There is a solution involving recognition of the economic union that currently exists between North and South. There already are regulatory differences between the North and Britain. This logic could be extended to include the North in a sort-of customs union with the Republic. Imagination and goodwill are needed, however.

We have heard so much in recent days about how the British have been taken by surprise by the supposed hard line taken by the Irish.

Similar expressions of astonishment and disbelief are heard whenever the EU reiterates it’s negotiating principles. Somebody should explain to UK politicians about EU law and Irish history.

There is no other option open to Varadkar other than the line he is taking. Explain to Davis and May what happened after Collins signed up to a hard border.

This isn’t going to end well
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
53,216
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Very valid solutions, both would work,
i note no arguments against them!!
Only as a temporary sticking plaster.

The arguments against are exactly the same as those against our leaving the EU, the clue being in the word peasant. A poor and declining future.
.
 
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Kudoscycles

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Danidl....is this sensible....

Bertie Ahern, the former Irish prime minister, has broadly backed the UK government’s plan for the Northern Ireland/Ireland border after Brexit. In a position paper in August (pdf), the government suggested that a hard border could be avoided, even if the UK left the customs union, through a strategy dubbed by some “technology and trust” - operating a trusted trader scheme, and using new technology.

Many EU leaders think the plans are fanciful, but Ahern suggested they could work, provided the UK was willing to turn a blind eye to smaller traders ignoring customs rules.

Everyone knows that HMRC customs are already useless at collecting duty,now there will be a differential between a small trader and a big one.
You can see the confusion at the border,little traderA goes across the border 10 times per day with 2 bikes in the back-no duty,big traderB gpes across once per week with 100 in his truck-pays duty. Anyone who trades knows that the small guy can wreck the business of the big guy if he has a price advantage,e-bay is the example of that.
The irish will be working out ways illegally round the tariffs,give them the opportunity to do it legally and the border becomes irrelevant.

You have to say these politicians are not the brightest bunch!!!!
KudosDave
 
Danidl....is this sensible....

Bertie Ahern, the former Irish prime minister, has broadly backed the UK government’s plan for the Northern Ireland/Ireland border after Brexit. In a position paper in August (pdf), the government suggested that a hard border could be avoided, even if the UK left the customs union, through a strategy dubbed by some “technology and trust” - operating a trusted trader scheme, and using new technology.

Many EU leaders think the plans are fanciful, but Ahern suggested they could work, provided the UK was willing to turn a blind eye to smaller traders ignoring customs rules.

Everyone knows that HMRC customs are already useless at collecting duty,now there will be a differential between a small trader and a big one.
You can see the confusion at the border,little traderA goes across the border 10 times per day with 2 bikes in the back-no duty,big traderB gpes across once per week with 100 in his truck-pays duty. Anyone who trades knows that the small guy can wreck the business of the big guy if he has a price advantage,e-bay is the example of that.
The irish will be working out ways illegally round the tariffs,give them the opportunity to do it legally and the border becomes irrelevant.

You have to say these politicians are not the brightest bunch!!!!
KudosDave
Its not just about trade, its about movement of people.
 

shemozzle999

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Liam Fox wants a trade deal, if Ireland doesn't then your ground transport route through to the EU will be masked with long delays and air transport will have to avoid UK air space. Your choice.
 

oldgroaner

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Liam Fox wants a trade deal, if Ireland doesn't then your ground transport route through to the EU will be masked with long delays and air transport will have to avoid UK air space. Your choice.
Good times ahead for the development of transport links from ports like Waterford eh?
And Air transport will continue as before, why shouldn't it? just fly direct to the continent.
Why do you imagine it would have to avoid UK airspace? this isn't yet North Korea, even if you want it to be.
 
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Danidl

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Danidl....is this sensible....

Bertie Ahern, the former Irish prime minister, has broadly backed the UK government’s plan for the Northern Ireland/Ireland border after Brexit. In a position paper in August (pdf), the government suggested that a hard border could be avoided, even if the UK left the customs union, through a strategy dubbed by some “technology and trust” - operating a trusted trader scheme, and using new technology.

Many EU leaders think the plans are fanciful, but Ahern suggested they could work, provided the UK was willing to turn a blind eye to smaller traders ignoring customs rules.

Everyone knows that HMRC customs are already useless at collecting duty,now there will be a differential between a small trader and a big one.
You can see the confusion at the border,little traderA goes across the border 10 times per day with 2 bikes in the back-no duty,big traderB gpes across once per week with 100 in his truck-pays duty. Anyone who trades knows that the small guy can wreck the business of the big guy if he has a price advantage,e-bay is the example of that.
The irish will be working out ways illegally round the tariffs,give them the opportunity to do it legally and the border becomes irrelevant.

You have to say these politicians are not the brightest bunch!!!!
KudosDave
Bertie is the kind of bloke who can finesse a lot, .. nothing is too much trouble, every trouble can be talked around. This type of creative ambiguity was exactly what was needed at a stage in the North Ireland peace talks, but exactly not the type of ambiguity needed when dealing with financial matters, or banks or customs unions .
So no is the short answer.
 

Danidl

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Ireland
Liam Fox wants a trade deal, if Ireland doesn't then your ground transport route through to the EU will be masked with long delays and air transport will have to avoid UK air space. Your choice.
The shortest time route to the continent is by ferry from rosslare to Cherbourg. Travel through the uk is marginally cheaper but always took longer. The pembroke to channel ports takes how long? The angesea to channel ports a bit longer.
If the UK were to play silly about air routes, then they can give up any notion of going to tge USA.. the Shannon ATC covers the north Atlantic.
This is decending into farce.
Does this Mr Fox know anything about international treaties, the law of the sea etc? .. perhaps he should spend a day in the maritime college in Portsmouth, where my brother trained.
If he actually came out with that guff, he should not be let out without nurses.
 

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