Brexit, for once some facts.

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
I totally agree that the EU favours large businesses - to the detriment of small ones.
However, we need large businesses to invest here. That's why I think we should adopt the same position of EFTA countries.
You have a typo, the US favours large businesses to the detriment of small ones. That is what Wall street is all about. Large businesses create less jobs than small ones and are much better at evading corporate taxation, why would you need more of those in the UK?

http://www.erionet.org/

But of course this has to be implemented by sovereign national governments, you know the ones who don't have control... We now have a president in France who is taking the first steps to favor SME. And only nine (9) years after the SBA was adopted by the Commission!
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,391
16,885
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
the vast majority of businesses are SMEs, nobody is going to change that. We all need large businesses too, which can run large projects, train people, advance science etc.
the kind of regulations that the EU develop within the scope of the Single Market affects more and more very small businesses, employing well less than 50 people. That is too much.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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And staying as we were was just getting us in a deeper hole. You make out as though everything is and has been fine for years. It is not. The mess we are in now is whilst playing to tune eu demands..
Except they didn't make any demands, did they? we had avoided anything and anything they tried to do
 
the vast majority of businesses are SMEs, nobody is going to change that. We all need large businesses too, which can run large projects, train people, advance science etc.
the kind of regulations that the EU develop within the scope of the Single Market affects more and more very small businesses, employing well less than 50 people. That is too much.
Have you been to Germany? The argument that the EU gets in the way of anything or prevents the UK exporting etc etc is lost simply by looking there. Their economy, exports, business is all thriving. Why do you think they can do it, and we can't? We're both in the EU?
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
I wonder why the hard brexiters put forward JRM as their leader.
The man has not said anything worth listening to in his whole life.
Even Dominic Raab is more eloquent and convincing than him.
Lord charles is no longer available

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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
And they will still find cheap labour from somewhere, won't they?
The problem is that the majority that voted for Brexit are expecting the opposite result, more jobs, more pay.
The irony is that we already have near "full" so called employment and wages go down, as does what they will buy.
Apart from the fact they are the sort of Platitudes the likes of Russell Grant the Astrologer comes our with?
Any fool can do that, what counts is what the fool actually DOES and her Moggy scores badly in a spectacular fashion, lets look at the Evidence in his Voting record.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI68jS4-2V1gIVpbftCh04dgJsEAAYASAAEgKihfD_BwE


A waste of a seat in the House of commons



I'm sorry but if you don't regard this man as despicable you have a serious problem with judgement of right and wrong.
He is a dangerous idiot.
Quite why you chose to comment on this having given me reason to apologise for assuming you would - surprises me some, not much however.

Why do you seem to accept that what he says makes sense, albeit call them platitudes and then make silly comments like this. You completely miss the point that Conservatives are not the Nanny State, not Top Down and from this you seem to believe not responsible or caring. That is nonsense, of course they care. Do families care for themselves anymore, do they take any responsibility for their children or their parents and grandparents. Does it really have to be the state that does everything. Surely, you can understand that there is not an endless supply of money, or resource, come to that to provide for such a world. Fully accept that there are some than can't possibly cope for themselves but there are many others for which that is simply not the case or at least it wouldn't have been so but for the so called rights to have such support from the state. Where is the responsibility.

No, the state cannot do everything and neither should we, or you, expect it to. If, you're so smart, could you provide for all these people, even if you took the wealth form the so-called rich-cats?
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
Except they didn't make any demands, did they? we had avoided anything and anything they tried to do
Now you are joking surely? There is a raft of EU laws that would seem to fill an enormous warehouse that we are attempting to repeal or adopt as suits. The French seem quite good at choosing which to accept or ignore, we. on the other hand have tended not to have so many laws (by comparison) but perhaps foolishly we do abide by them and therein lies one of the issues we have. The Germans by way of example make the house-holder responsible for any dangerous ice or snow on the walkway. We used to have it that it should be obvious that if it was iced, it was dangerous and therefore the individual should take care when walking on ice or snow... personal responsibility.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Quite why you chose to comment on this having given me reason to apologise for assuming you would - surprises me some, not much however.

Why do you seem to accept that what he says makes sense, albeit call them platitudes and then make silly comments like this. You completely miss the point that Conservatives are not the Nanny State, not Top Down and from this you seem to believe not responsible or caring. That is nonsense, of course they care. Do families care for themselves anymore, do they take any responsibility for their children or their parents and grandparents. Does it really have to be the state that does everything. Surely, you can understand that there is not an endless supply of money, or resource, come to that to provide for such a world. Fully accept that there are some than can't possibly cope for themselves but there are many others for which that is simply not the case or at least it wouldn't have been so but for the so called rights to have such support from the state. Where is the responsibility.

No, the state cannot do everything and neither should we, or you, expect it to. If, you're so smart, could you provide for all these people, even if you took the wealth form the so-called rich-cats?
Lets put it this way it would be difficult not to do a better job than you seem to regard as a "fine effort".
The rest is quite frankly much the same nonsense that your non hero spouts, a defence of the very people who are actually exploiting all and sundry with a pretence of caring for those at the bottom.
The notion that Torys are not "Top Down" in their thinking is a complete fabrication, from an outfit that operated like a branch of the Mafia.
There isn't an endless supply of Money eh? so while there are scandals over the huge salaries the likes of Rees Mogg extract from their business and have the sheer brass to claim it isn't enough.

"The same colleague also questions whether Rees-Mogg really is the courtly, self-effacing gent he always appears to be. ‘I saw him accost a former manager to complain his seven-figure bonus wasn’t sufficient — in the line-up at his own wedding,’ he says."
Where is "The responsibility" in that?
He demands more for himself and extols the virtue of Food Banks,while all the time more money is being borrowed exceeding many times the amount that the second team "New Labour" did.
Sorry but like Rees Mogg, your words are Hollow and actions taken by this Government had been so incompetent they have brought us to this sorry state of facing the future in the fashion of being armed with a Feather Duster facing an invasion of the Red Army.
Your comment "The state "can't do everything" is hilarious?, perhaps it can't, but this lot haven't even done ANYTHING right, have they?
They brought on a situation they didn't officially want, made a balls up of the referendum, and are now fighting for something that only a faction of the country and the Government itself wants, that no one can prove is going to be anything short of disastrous.
And you repeat the nonsense they put out from one of the worst of them as having biblical significance.
Not buying, try making sense.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
No, the state cannot do everything and neither should we, or you, expect it to.
There we have the problem of the English, they love nannies, especially if they are the state.

The role of the state is to protect those who need protecting, end of mandate. IMHO protecting multinational companies from income tax is slightly overstepping that mandate, multinational companies can look after themselves...
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
There we have the problem of the English, they love nannies, especially if they are the state.

The role of the state is to protect those who need protecting, end of mandate. IMHO protecting multinational companies from income tax is slightly overstepping that mandate, multinational companies can look after themselves...
I totally agree with you, we are a nanny state.

I guess the 'problem' with big multinational business is that it is fairly easy to draw the conclusion that you need them simply because they bring scale of employment to the table. That in turn takes people out of the benefit system and therefore 'saves' us all money - I think the next step in the economic argument is that the 'saved' money can therefore be used, indeed seen as an investment. Hence the tax break incentives... Hard to argue with that surely, it's exactly the same as investing in education and training. The fact that those at the top take massively increased salaries is plainly wrong and whilst I'm not sure who it was introduced these Salary Review Bodies they obviously don't work - for the rest of us.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,391
16,885
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
41% of British public find £10 billion exit fee acceptable.
£10b That's it. No more.
As much as the attitude toward paying has softened, at this rate, we are going to find it very difficult to cough up enough to make a deal possible.
The only way to engage the public to face the consequences of no deal is for Labour to spell out how much it would agree to pay to avoid the cliff edge.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Now you are joking surely? There is a raft of EU laws that would seem to fill an enormous warehouse that we are attempting to repeal or adopt as suits. The French seem quite good at choosing which to accept or ignore, we. on the other hand have tended not to have so many laws (by comparison) but perhaps foolishly we do abide by them and therein lies one of the issues we have. The Germans by way of example make the house-holder responsible for any dangerous ice or snow on the walkway. We used to have it that it should be obvious that if it was iced, it was dangerous and therefore the individual should take care when walking on ice or snow... personal responsibility.
Can you explain if there are so many laws we don't like, why were we not only involved in formulating them, but accepted them officially too?
Conservatives seem unable to understand two things
  1. What they are doing
  2. That they actually were responsible for what they did.
And here is a classic example of Tory logic

The Germans by way of example make the house-holder responsible for any dangerous ice or snow on the walkway.
"We used to have it that it should be obvious that if it was iced, it was dangerous and therefore the individual should take care when walking on ice or snow... personal responsibility.
Why then did the Government accept this law?
You don't like it because you fear being sued if someone has an accident on your property that you were too lazy to prevent
The truth is that because of being motivated primarily by self interest Tory voters shirk their responsibility to others, then have the gall to imagine they are being virtuous in doing so, and spout self righteous nonsense as a defence.
Carried to its logical conclusion we will regress to the 1930's were there were no health and safety laws, after all, only the "plebs" work, who in the level of society that "matters" cares about their lives?
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Its really interesting how peoples attitudes and opinions have polarised during course of this thread. There are very few who have actually modified their opinions, rather they have simply exaggerated them further and become more confrontational in doing so..Reckon some trick cyclist would know more about why...Hats off to Tillson and Woosh , they have developed and modified rather than become more fundamental.
Lessons for us all.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Its really interesting how peoples attitudes and opinions have polarised during course of this thread. There are very few who have actually modified their opinions, rather they have simply exaggerated them further and become more confrontational in doing so..Reckon some trick cyclist would know more about why...Hats off to Tillson and Woosh , they have developed and modified rather than become more fundamental.
Lessons for us all.
And only one who has managed to be as changeable as the weather.
Sincere congratulations

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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
41% of British public find £10 billion exit fee acceptable.
£10b That's it. No more.
As much as the attitude toward paying has softened, at this rate, we are going to find it very difficult to cough up enough to make a deal possible.
The only way to engage the public to face the consequences of no deal is for Labour to spell out how much it would agree to pay to avoid the cliff edge.
Exactly what I said a month ago. The hard Brexiters seem to think that £10 billion is too much and they seem to be controlling May.
So it looks like we are going to crash out under WTO, or stay in.
The EU will probably be skint and the rest of the 27 will think us shits for not paying up, but as we are now officially European haters I suppose we will have to live with that.
KudosDave, from a lovely Greek fishing village.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Because nothing has changed we will be leaving under WTO - 80 Tories still pressing for hard brexit.

Revealed: The Tory MPs using taxpayers’ cash to fund a secretive hard-Brexit group | openDemocracy
So there has been a coup carried out by a group of far right nut jobs after all?
And they have financed it's activities by fleecing the public like the parasites they are?

Doesn't anyone who supports the Tory party ever wonder why this shabby lot of villains have gone to all this trouble to rock the boat?
Why are they gambling the future of the Nation?
Is there anyone out there that believes for one second they are doing this for the well being and future of the public rather than for some selfish reason?
You would have to have no brains at all to believe that!

Oh! what a surprise!
 
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