Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I think Davis is doing the right thing to establish the legal basis for the bill.
We can't just blindly accept the bill without due dilligence.
I would have thought the EU is better prepared for this.

You are of course Joking
This is the "legal" argument we are employing as articulated by the House of Lords
"somewhere between zero and €100bn (£84bn) is probably the only accurate answer at the moment. The former is what some British ministers still argue for, drawing succour from an influential House of Lords report that suggests any liability arising on leaving the EU is not legally enforceable
And the reason????
Roll of Drums please...

Taa Raah!

because the UK will have left.

Have to rest for a minute, as I am suffering from an insane laughter attack.

It isn't legal because we've left?

Ken Dodd had a classic line that covered this sort of Rationale

"I suffer from Kleptomania.
When it gets bad
I take something for it!"

Brexit, a licence to rob the world and call it legal

Tell me this. What nation in it's right mind would want to trade with a Country run like something out of Pirates of the Caribbean?

Agreed it worked for us in the past, but we are out of Gunboats these days!

 

[oldgroaner]

you did all the explaining for me. Customers want to buy KTM bikes, they just have to pay a higher price. Same thing happens over in EU27 land.
Over time, the landscape will change, KTM customers may find Wisper Shimano equipped bikes better value for money. KTM may lose sales to Chinese made Steps E8000 bikes.

And while you are doing very nicely the poor are curling up theirs toes and leaving this mortal coil?
Employment goes down here as your profits rise?
Is this really the extent of your moral horizon?
Is profit and loss all that is at stake here?
It's TRIVIAL, and demonstrates just how far this society has gone down the road to being unfit to serve the public.
Talk about fiddling while Rome burns.
When there are hard times Scavengers prosper, before they too succumb, remember that.
When people are poor who's going to buy your cheap chinese bikes?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

you did all the explaining for me. Customers want to buy KTM bikes, they just have to pay a higher price. Same thing happens over in EU27 land.
Over time, the landscape will change, KTM customers may find Wisper Shimano equipped bikes better value for money. KTM may lose sales to Chinese made Steps E8000 bikes.

This assumes the UK (1 Nation) is able to negotiate a better trade deal with China than the EU (27 Nations) and also assumes that the chinese bikes won't still be less desirable than the EU ones. The tariff isn't going to put people off premium EU brands. Just look at normal road bike brands, people pay a fortune for Italian brands, a tariff will put that up a bit, but those customers aren't suddenly going to start buying Chinese are they.

Also... if the EU market is bigger for Wisper than the UK, they'd be daft not to move to France and ship the bikes back into the UK, rather than export to EU.

 

[PeterL]

But the EU is doing that insisting on the status of citizens in other countries be dealt with before discussing trade. That's the equivalent human issue.
.

Not quite, the EU is trying to be the Judge as well as one of the parents. I doubt that the parent that wasn't granted custody would have the final say in how the children were raised by the other half. Quite what happens to the children in the case of an EU National and a UK one when they divorce might be a point in question. Even then common sense should prevail, and usually does in my experience, sadly lacking in these BREXIT negotiations as the recent statement from Brussels would seem to suggest.

 

[Woosh]

Is profit and loss all that is at stake here?

we are talking about 3% duty on e-bikes if imported from the EU.
E-bikes imported from China stay on 6% import duty.
The extra 3% duty on European e-bikes go to the Treasury instead to the EU.

 

[Woosh]

This is the "legal" argument we are employing as articulated by the House of Lords

legal arguments have to be the basis to settle the divorce bills.
This is one case for the ECJ, not the commission,

 

[PeterL]

legal arguments have to be the basis to settle the divorce bills.
This is one case for the ECJ, not the commission,

Makes sense to me and in this case probably the sooner the better! The parties can either agree to share the resultant bill or winner takes all.

 

[flecc]

Quite what happens to the children in the case of an EU National and a UK one when they divorce might be a point in question. Even then common sense should prevail

That's where the ECJ comes in, it's commonsense to have a court independent of both parties deciding, which is what the EU wants us to accept.

 

[oldgroaner]

legal arguments have to be the basis to settle the divorce bills.
This is one case for the ECJ, not the commission,

Hang on, what are you talking about? i was expressing the view stated by the British House of Lords, not the EU Commission.

 

[oldgroaner]

we are talking about 3% duty on e-bikes if imported from the EU.
E-bikes imported from China stay on 6% import duty.
The extra 3% duty on European e-bikes go to the Treasury instead to the EU.

You missed the point, you were talking about that, not me, I really am not concerned too much about financial matters, they can easily be rectified, social matters are far more important and not so easy to fix.

 

[oldgroaner]

The word "Divorce" is utterly inappropriate, we are in the process of secession, absolutely nothing like, nor comparable with Marriage, and it is stupid and misleading, causing compeletely inappropriate reactions based of feelings rather than pragmatic logic in the public to refer to it is this manner.

It is simply a very convenient ploy for Rabble Rousers of the Gutter Press to incense the Public with, stirring up an emotional "them and us" situation, damaging to getting an agreed result.

 

[Woosh]

legal arguments have to be the basis to settle the divorce bills.
This is one case for the ECJ, not the commission,

it's the EU Commission that wants to load the bill with items that the British government does not agree to. Our HoL may have a view but at the end of the day, disputes between members (1 against 27) , it may have to come to the ECJ for resolution.

 

[Woosh]

social matters are far more important and not so easy to fix.

surely, social matters have more to do with the conservative government than the brexit process.

 

[Woosh]

Also... if the EU market is bigger for Wisper than the UK, they'd be daft not to move to France and ship the bikes back into the UK, rather than export to EU.

that is the scenario that a lot of larger companies will have to comtemplate: splitting their operations between the EU and UK, ending up with two operations, the large one in the EU and the small one in the UK.
We are faced with job losses from downsizing of Japanese companies in the UK but would gain later on a lot of small European setups.
Who knows, KTM may want you to head up their UK ops.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Who knows, KTM may want you to head up their UK ops.

What do you think we're already doing??

 

[oldgroaner]

surely, social matters have more to do with the conservative government than the brexit process.

Brexit destroys any hope of reasonable laws for the people of this country with regard to working or human rights

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

What do you think we're already doing??

I know you run Fli Distribution which distrubutes KTM bikes among other things but I don't know if KTM have separate HQ.

 

[PeterL]

Brexit destroys any hope of reasonable laws for the people of this country with regard to working or human rights

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

What a load of old rubbish!

 

[Kudoscycles]

This assumes the UK (1 Nation) is able to negotiate a better trade deal with China than the EU (27 Nations) and also assumes that the chinese bikes won't still be less desirable than the EU ones. The tariff isn't going to put people off premium EU brands. Just look at normal road bike brands, people pay a fortune for Italian brands, a tariff will put that up a bit, but those customers aren't suddenly going to start buying Chinese are they.

Also... if the EU market is bigger for Wisper than the UK, they'd be daft not to move to France and ship the bikes back into the UK, rather than export to EU.

There are some nice premium normal bike brands out of China but the 55% tariff makes them uncompetitive when compared to premium brands out of Italy and Germany....when I say uncompetitive I mean there is no big saving buying Chinese.
The concern is if we dont crack a deal then the EU will put that same tariff on UK to EU bike suppliers(Brompton) and we will fight back with similar tariff EU to UK,chinese bikes without the tariff will look very competitive in the UK or in Ireland smuggled across the border.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

you did all the explaining for me. Customers want to buy KTM bikes, they just have to pay a higher price. Same thing happens over in EU27 land.
Over time, the landscape will change, KTM customers may find Wisper Shimano equipped bikes better value for money. KTM may lose sales to Chinese made Steps E8000 bikes.

It will be many years before Wisper has the profile of Kalkhoff or KTM,but the whole e-bike business may fall out because the costs are too high.
KudosDave