Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
"All the jobs lack long-term security'. You really do make me laugh. What fricking planet are you living on?

No jobs have long term security.

Welcome to 2017.

I hope you have a nice flight.
Oxygen, I'll respond to that one. There are industries where the upfront costs are pretty high. Pharmaceutical manufacturing being one, the plant is expensive and needs commissioning, the processes need validation , the staff need comprehensive training and verification, all before a single tablet is produced. No company is going to go through that process without prospects of a long production cycle.
Hospitals, law courts , universities are similar long term employment facilities.
There are also other manufacturering operations termed screwdriver operations , where the process can be set up in a couple of weeks example would have been electronic product assembly.
There are even shorter term operations which can be set up and go in a week eg. Customer service hotlines ..
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Steb and robdon

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
The EU wants to set a president of ECJ control over its citizens while residing in the UK after Brexit.

If that is agreed then surely it should be reciprocated for any other country who has its citizens residing in the EU to take president over ECJ law.

Do you think they would agree?
The EU position is that it's citizens have been given specific rights. Their view is that they , the EU then don't have a right to then deny those rights... If they did they were not rights but privileges .
If they remain in or go to a country where they had those rights, the EU wants to ensure they remain entitled to those rights.
If they were to go to a country where they never had those rights eg USA , then that would be OK because the contract between the EU and the citizen would not be broken.

In the case of the UK, all EU citizens, including UK subjects, already have these rights, so how is the UK going to protect them into the future!
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
"All the jobs lack long-term security'. You really do make me laugh. What fricking planet are you living on?

No jobs have long term security.

Welcome to 2017.

I hope you have a nice flight.
You mean welcome to the second rate country that you voted for, not me.

It seems you are unable to imagine or even make an effort to make this country better, just end up as a serf, welcome to the middle ages, you voted for it, didn't you?

Without long term security you don't have a stable society, just a rat race, and you are to all intents and purposes "Someone else's monkey"
Because you think that is all you can expect.
If that is the best you can imagine.
Then you are going to get what you deserve.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Steb and robdon

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,912
6,513
we get all these so called cuts yet this will never stop going up.
http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

so where is all this money going? it is going up even faster if anything pmsl.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon and flecc
The law (it's probably not a law just a general result) - that says we can't democratically vote out the EU commissioners. As people. As people that can claim £200 a day for doing **** all. I'd like the power to do that. Which right now I don't have. Seeing as they are not democratically elected. To me this was about getting power back to do stuff like that. Like Juncker who can put £20,000 on expenses to fly to Italy for the weekend. And right now we can't do anything about that. If thats a law - then I want to be able to change that. Kick him out. And all the hangers-on in Brussels. All that. I want that all gone. Its wrong. Its just ******* wrong and thats one of the big reasons I wanted out. And sure I know for some small manufacturers its going to be tough. I'm sorry. What can I say? Thems is the breaks. But this total lack of accountability has to go. Not just in the EU either. Back here too. But let's start with them - we'll get to us in good time. But we have to keep the vote close. When the ability to vote is so far away - and can not get rid of the people who are making the laws - that's just plain f***ked and we all know that. OK. Rant over.
OH MY ACTUAL GOD.... seriously, this is scary, that you actual believe this and have so little understanding of the actual way things work.

You can clearly type, so type things into Google and do some research. Ignorance is fine, its something you can solve. Have a check who you MEP is and contact them, I'd be prepared to bet you didn't even vote in the last european elections and don't know who your MEP is.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
The law (it's probably not a law just a general result) - that says we can't democratically vote out the EU commissioners. As people. As people that can claim £200 a day for doing **** all. I'd like the power to do that. Which right now I don't have. Seeing as they are not democratically elected. To me this was about getting power back to do stuff like that. Like Juncker who can put £20,000 on expenses to fly to Italy for the weekend. And right now we can't do anything about that. If thats a law - then I want to be able to change that. Kick him out. And all the hangers-on in Brussels. All that. I want that all gone. Its wrong. Its just ******* wrong and thats one of the big reasons I wanted out. And sure I know for some small manufacturers its going to be tough. I'm sorry. What can I say? Thems is the breaks. But this total lack of accountability has to go. Not just in the EU either. Back here too. But let's start with them - we'll get to us in good time. But we have to keep the vote close. When the ability to vote is so far away - and can not get rid of the people who are making the laws - that's just plain f***ked and we all know that. OK. Rant over.
But like IDS you don't know what law you would like our post Brexit parliament to pass. I suspect most Brexiters haven't a clue either.
Perhaps like Rees-Mogg your priority may be to bring back fox hunting?
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,912
6,513
well at the rate that clock is going up we could build the death star in 400 years as that is what the debt would be buy then lol.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,912
6,513
But like IDS you don't know what law you would like our post Brexit parliament to pass. I suspect most Brexiters haven't a clue either.
Perhaps like Rees-Mogg your priority may be to bring back fox hunting?
KudosDave
there will be changes to the data protection act that is for sure because universal credit wont work the way it stands as it is.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Einstein should have stuck to what he was good at - just like Hawkins should at the moment. Just because you know how to mess with atoms does not mean you know anything about economics or how to create genuine wealth.
Just because you were a doctor doesn't make you an expert at negotiating trade deals......Liam Fox. Or because you were part of the hellfire club doesn't make you ideal as Foreign Secretary......Boris Johnson. Hammond was a car dealer so I suppose he can add up....nice set of wheels Arthur.
KudosDave
 
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
"All the jobs lack long-term security'. You really do make me laugh. What fricking planet are you living on?

No jobs have long term security.

Welcome to 2017.

I hope you have a nice flight.
I have run the same business for 45 years,I have employees who have been with me for 35 years,all my recent employees have worked for me for at least 8 years. Many will work from school to pension. How long term do you want?
There are many family businesses in the UK that still have descendants of the original creators and employees are there for their working lives.
You obviously were in the wrong business for longevity of employment.
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
The EU wants to set a president of ECJ control over its citizens while residing in the UK after Brexit.

If that is agreed then surely it should be reciprocated for any other country who has its citizens residing in the EU to take president over ECJ law.

Do you think they would agree?

Do you mean precedent or president?,I suspect the former.
I don't think they trust May and Co to look after the EU citizens in the UK post Brexit,they have good reason the Tories are not exactly looking after British citizens in the UK even now.
Our citizens in Spain trust the EU to look after them more than the UK,their representations in the negotiations are made to Barnier not Davis.
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
May is to release another 5 position papers next week,included in these are the EU-UK trade deal wished by the UK. Within that paper is the thorny issue of who will govern this trade deal.
We know that the EU will not discuss any future trade deal until the first 3 points are satisfied and don't expect that to be 2018 at the earliest. But when they do discuss the trade deal,if ever,the EU will want the ECJ as governing court,Theresa May will not want that.
I make the score so far EU 4 v UK 0.
Not sure what the other 4 position papers cover but I am sure they will not align with the EU requirements.
We haven't learnt yet,these are not negotiations,they are Barnier tells us what we are getting,we either accept or walk away,I don't see any reason why the EU is going to compromise on anything.
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
Thanks Woosh / Kudos, corrected.

The EU wants to set a precedence of ECJ control over its citizens while residing in the UK after Brexit.

If that is agreed then surely it should be reciprocated for any other country who has its citizens residing in the EU to take precedence over ECJ law.

Do you think they would agree?
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brexit-for-once-some-facts.24369/page-958#post-393018

Danidl the question Kudos posed was post Brexit when the UK becomes a Third Country as defined by the EU.

ECJ rulings will no longer apply as is the case in all other Third Countries, any rights will be determined by UK law, unless the UK government decides otherwise, part of taking back control.

Your argument has no legs, but if it did and the EU/UK conceded reciprocal ECJ / UK rulings within the citizens place of residence, using your argument the UK citizens will be allowed to use throttles on their ebikes within the EU as to do otherwise would be a denial of their UK rights.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brexit-for-once-some-facts.24369/page-958#post-393062

Noted, but how about an answer to the question.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: robdon

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,380
16,876
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
there is no ambiguity about which law a person must abide by, the local law. The possible role of the ECJ in future disputes is only that of the highest order court instead of the highest court of the country. There is no doubt that a supranational court is required when the dispute is supranational, example: do aged parents of a settled person enjoy the right of family reunion because they need to be looked after by their children?
The answer is not no much the institution but the composition of the judging panel as UK judges won't be normally represented.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Thanks Woosh / Kudos, corrected.



http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brexit-for-once-some-facts.24369/page-958#post-393018

Danidl the question Kudos posed was post Brexit when the UK becomes a Third Country as defined by the EU.

ECJ rulings will no longer apply as is the case in all other Third Countries, any rights will be determined by UK law, unless the UK government decides otherwise, part of taking back control.

Your argument has no legs, but if it did and the EU/UK conceded reciprocal ECJ / UK rulings within the citizens place of residence, using your argument the UK citizens will be allowed to use throttles on their ebikes within the EU as to do otherwise would be a denial of their UK rights.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brexit-for-once-some-facts.24369/page-958#post-393062

Noted, but how about an answer to the question.
. My previous answer to the question you , not Kudos, posed, illustrated the dilemma that the UK EU negotiators will face when they actually negotiate.
There is an established principle of " when in Rome, do as the Romans do.." and this has served well.
Eg in certain countries what we define as children can be married off or multiple wives etc are allowed by law, or drive on the right hand side of the road Where citizens of these countries to come to the EU including UK, they would be expected to abide by the rules of the country where they are, not where they came from. They are not allowed claim multiple spouse allowances , or engage in statutory rape etc.
The EU has always operated the principal of subsidiarity, where local laws and customs, take precedence unless in direct violation of a binding directive. The case in NI of no exemption for ebikes below 250w, being a case in point, and it would be illegal for me to drive my perfectly legal ebike, 15 miles north of my permanent residence. That would be a similar case to your throttle point. Had the UK requested and negotiated a derogation, they would be entitled to use throttle controls in the UK.... But not in Rome.

The problem with your initial posting was in using the word . "control " Instead of precedence. The EU does not have a police force and bailiffs to enforce control. The ECJ does not seek to control the UK. By agreeing in a number of treaties, the UK accepted that the ECJ would have primary place or precedence in certain matters . One of those matters is the personal rights of EU citizens. The UK wants to change the relationship, and that creates the dilemma. It is now incumbent on the UK to demonstrate how they will vindicate those rights of EU citizens, when they are the sole authority. There are any of a variety of means open to them, including a special declaration at the UN.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The UK's biggest problem in stupidly attempting to negotiate all the trade and significant other benefits we enjoy as part of the EU is that we have no-one in government sufficiently talented to persuade the EU negotiators towards allowing us to have all those things....for free!

With an intellectual desert as a leader, the UK is simply going to fail and we will find ourselves out in the cold, desperately trying to do back-door deals with some seedy second-division players on the world stage.

20882793_1542369155784215_1340448805146098393_n.jpg

Tom
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Advertisers