Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

It seems that the Samsung company doesn't believe London provides the kind of future they want to invest in, so Berlin it is!

Are they wrong? I don't know but it is a little worrying.

row-erupts-as-samsung-snubs-london-because-its-not-fun-unless-youre-really-rich-a3586036.html

Tom

The shock! I can hardly believe my eyes!
Do people ACTUALLY PAY £4.50 for a PINT of London Beer?

I refuse to believe that. it averages £3:00 in Hull and even tastes like Beer, and you are not in danger of Drowning or Bankruptcy before you feel the effects!

 

[oldtom]

It isn't just London - I paid £4.75 for a pint of some eminently forgettable keg beer in Cambridge just recently and that was in a pub; not an hotel or restaurant.

Tom

 

[flecc]

Hard Brexit here we come!

Once this government gets past the bluffing, I don't think it has the courage to hard Brexit. Their lack of an adequate majority, the weakness of Theresa May and the true remainer status of the vast majority of the MPs in all parties will make it easier for them to back away from walking out of the EU.

The most likely outcome will be the usual fudge, in this case a soft Brexit sold as a hard one, with none of the electorate satisfied.

If only Cameron had had the guts to declare the referendum result fo what it was, a draw, we could have avoided this mess. The general election outcome has emphasised the fact of the draw even more emphatically, we are an evenly divided country.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

John Harris has written a good article for the Guardian headed 'Brexit is a terrible idea,but it has to happen'
He has put very eloquently how we have ended up in a position on Brexit and why we have to endure the pain just to prove the remainers were right.
His conclusions.....

The only way such delusions will fade is if they are finally tested in the real world and found wanting, whereupon this country may at last be ready to humbly engage with modernity. And in that sense, to paraphrase a faded politician, Brexit probably has to mean Brexit. That may result in a long spell of relative penury, and an atmosphere of recrimination and resentment. By the time everything is resolved a lot of us will either be very old or dead. But that may be the price we have to pay to belatedly put all our imperial baggage in the glass case where it belongs, and to edge our way back into the European family, if they will have us.

In the meantime, this messiest of national dramas grinds on, and not for the first time the story suggests the priceless words of the American writer and satirist HL Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”

The trouble is that neither May or Corbyn will risk the wrath of the Tory fascists and UKIP leftovers (or should that be rightovers) and bravely say BREXIT IS A MISTAKE WE SHOULD STOP IT TOMORROW.....but maybe events with the EU will stop it for them.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Once this government gets past the bluffing, I don't think it has the courage to hard Brexit. Their lack of an adequate majority, the weakness of Theresa May and the true remainer status of the vast majority of the MPs in all parties will make it easier for them to back away from walking out of the EU.

The most likely outcome will be the usual fudge, in this case a soft Brexit sold as a hard one, with none of the electorate satisfied.

If only Cameron had had the guts to declare the referendum result fo what it was, a draw, we could have avoided this mess. The general election outcome has emphasised the fact of the draw even more emphatically, we are an evenly divided country.
.

I hope you are right....maybe Brexit is like an ice cream,good for a couple of bites but soon melts away and gets very messy,best thrown away.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The majority who voted don't.

It appears the EU has not understood the vote either.

Their latest "position" documents confirm this.

A polite "no thank you" from Mr Davis should make them more aware.

Hard Brexit here we come!

Are you prepared for all the pain of hard Brexit?
You may be a wealthy guy in which case Brexit will only make a dent,but some of the Jams are already struggling and Hammond will squeeze us all to make the numbers balance,there will be a heavy price to pay for Brexit.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

Terrific! the sooner it comes the sooner the people will learn the seriousness of their mistake in supporting Brexit
I believe the expression is "Bring it on!"

Out of curiosity just what are you expecting to come out of it that isn't a complete disaster?
Odd that you have never actually outlined what that is, care to try?
Or don't you know?
And what have you got against the idea of a United States of Europe? do you know, or is it a feeling?
Add this to that, wouldn't we be better off inside it and having influence than standing back helpless while it happens?
Brexiters continue to amaze me.
What is it that they want? or is it case that they don't actually know?

Can someone please articulate a logical case for Brexit that doesn't read like religious Dogma?
Where is the promised land to come?

let's Face it, but for Lies Brexit would never have happened would it?
And lies still sustain it
For the moment

... The religious dogma argument remains the single compelling argument and when any brexiteer is questioned it soon comes to the fore. .. essentially "we are British, we don't accept that Johnny foreigner has any right to tell us to do anything. , We ruled the world with the greatest empire ever seen ".. that argument is impossible to logically counter.

 

[Danidl]

John Harris has written a good article for the Guardian headed 'Brexit is a terrible idea,but it has to happen'
He has put very eloquently how we have ended up in a position on Brexit and why we have to endure the pain just to prove the remainers were right.
His conclusions.....

The only way such delusions will fade is if they are finally tested in the real world and found wanting, whereupon this country may at last be ready to humbly engage with modernity. And in that sense, to paraphrase a faded politician, Brexit probably has to mean Brexit. That may result in a long spell of relative penury, and an atmosphere of recrimination and resentment. By the time everything is resolved a lot of us will either be very old or dead. But that may be the price we have to pay to belatedly put all our imperial baggage in the glass case where it belongs, and to edge our way back into the European family, if they will have us.

In the meantime, this messiest of national dramas grinds on, and not for the first time the story suggests the priceless words of the American writer and satirist HL Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”

The trouble is that neither May or Corbyn will risk the wrath of the Tory fascists and UKIP leftovers (or should that be rightovers) and bravely say BREXIT IS A MISTAKE WE SHOULD STOP IT TOMORROW.....but maybe events with the EU will stop it for them.
KudosDave

.. well that in a nutshell is OGs argument over the last 7000 posts.

 

[Danidl]

It isn't just London - I paid £4.75 for a pint of some eminently forgettable keg beer in Cambridge just recently and that was in a pub; not an hotel or restaurant.

Tom

.. not being a drinker, but I understand that the purpose of beer drinking was to make it forgettable.

 

[Danidl]

The majority who voted don't.

It appears the EU has not understood the vote either.

Their latest "position" documents confirm this.

A polite "no thank you" from Mr Davis should make them more aware.

Hard Brexit here we come!

For 10 marks Could you please clarify in what material manner has the EU not understood, as identifed in their position papers. Marks will be deducted for waffle and obstruction.

 

[oldgroaner]

.. well that in a nutshell is OGs argument over the last 7000 posts.

I feel as if someone has walked over my grave[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

The trouble is that neither May or Corbyn will risk the wrath of the Tory fascists and UKIP leftovers

But they may have to risk that, since they depend on Northern Ireland's DUP. And Northern Ireland has a lot to lose if we hard Brexit the EU, both directly, and also indirectly as a result of any UK economic deterioration. If we go downhill, the cash that flows into Northern Ireland will soon reduce and even dry up.

It will no longer be plus a billion but minus a few billion instead, and the DUP won't support that.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

What do you think the EU is going to ask for the divorce settlement?
Will parliament agree to pay it?
Can we afford to pay it?
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

I feel as if someone has walked over my grave[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

.. that can be arranged....

 

[Danidl]

What do you think the EU is going to ask for the divorce settlement?
Will parliament agree to pay it?
Can we afford to pay it?
KudosDave

..just like in other divorces it not the upfront payment that matters more the downstream effects, .. being lonely, the lack of friends, the wondering , the regrets,..

 

[flecc]

What do you think the EU is going to ask for the divorce settlement?
Will parliament agree to pay it?
Can we afford to pay it?
KudosDave

We can't really assess that, it depends on how much we are prepared to give up. We are tied to two types of payment:

1) Support for programs that have a cost to completion, for example the Galileo satellite GPS system. We are liable to pay for that, currently 2024. That will also have an ongoing cost for maintenence, but see below. There are a number of other projects we are signed up to that have a whole cost.

2) Participation in non-critical programs that we can opt out of and lose any current or or future benefits. For example Galileo's continuing maintenance costs can be opted out of, at the cost of losing the higher tech benefits and only having the basic service.

So, going by the information available, what we end up paying could be anything from a little under £40 billions to £90 billions. I don't believe we would be stupid enough to walk out and pay nothing, suffering international harm in consequence.
.

 

[Woosh]

Can we afford to pay it?

Yes.

I think the EU only want a commitment to meet the cost, the proper bills will come in later, so it's roughly about 11 billions a year to start with, reducing over the next 10 years.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

QUOTE="Kudoscycles, post: 385998, member: 5492"]
Can we afford to pay it?
KudosDave[/QUOTE]

Yes.

I think the EU only want a commitment to meet the cost, the proper bills will come in later, so it's roughly about 11 billions a year to start with, reducing over the next 10 years.

I'm sure we can afford it financially..

The more interesting question is can party "x" whoever might be in power at the time, afford is politically?

 

[oldgroaner]

.. not being a drinker, but I understand that the purpose of beer drinking was to make it forgettable.

But London Beer is like Brexit, Unpalatable and unaffordable!

 

[oldtom]

The Labour MP for Bristol North West seems pretty certain about the government's Repeal Bill - I think he may have been reading our forum pages!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1691265970913720

Tom