Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

The only reason Labbour and Corbyn are happy about election is expectations. They were expecting to lose by a massive margin and didn't. That tells a story . Any organisation with that mentality never wins anything.
Have you ever seen Lewis Hamilton or MUFC or Murray happy at not winning. Only loosers rejoice at not loosing badly.
That mentality must change in labour.

 

[mike killay]

Perhaps the election was only advisory.

 

[oldgroaner]

And BTW flecc your stance on saying right wing press have affected his popularity is conflicting with your opinion labour won this election. You cant have it both ways flecc.

Why not? do explain your very odd logic, it really doesn't make ny sense does it? the two things are entirely different and unrelated

 

[oldgroaner]

The only reason Labbour and Corbyn are happy about election is expectations. They were expecting to lose by a massive margin and didn't. That tells a story . Any organisation with that mentality never wins anything.
Have you ever seen Lewis Hamilton or MUFC or Murray happy at not winning. Only loosers rejoice at not loosing badly.
That mentality must change in labour.

And only idiots rejoice if they win an election only to face long term damage when they prove unable to undo the damage caused by a combination of foolish voters opting for Brexit and the stupid Tories for setting the whole fiasco in motion in an attempt to sort out internal party conflicts.
The Tory party made the mess, let them take the flak when they cant put it right again.
The Labour Party won because the Tory party has undermined itself very badly and the EU will take advantage of that.
So a hard damaging Brexit is no longer an option
If the Tories had gained a big majority the EU would have known the country was behind them, now they know that isn't the case, and May and co really can't threaten them with a walk out any more.
Your view of Politics is far too simplistic.

 

[oldgroaner]

I did weeks ago.

It didn't work did it? here you are again rambling and ranting as usual about what if situations no one cares about.

 

[flecc]

And BTW flecc your stance on saying right wing press have affected his popularity is conflicting with your opinion labour won this election. You cant have it both ways flecc. Either right wing press destroyed him ( which they tried) or he was successful in this election. The pair are mutually exclusive.

I've said nothing about destroying him and my complaints have been directed against the Tories, rather than the press reporting of what they've said.

There's nothing mutually exclusive here. The anti-Corbyn propaganda did have a huge effect on large numbers of the electorate as we know from their comments when interviewed, and that no doubt depressed his vote. But on the other hand the constant insistence of the Tory propaganda rebounded against them, as those of the the electorate who are able to think for themselves reacted against it and voted accordingly.

It was the latter who brought about the unexpected recovery of the Labour vote, aided by Corbyn's performance in the campaign.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Perhaps the election was only advisory.

A closer fit would be "ill advised" don't you reckon?

 

[Danidl]

I've said nothing about destroying him and my complaints have been directed against the Tories, rather than the press reporting of what they've said.

There's nothing mutually exclusive here. The anti-Corbyn propaganda did have a huge effect on large numbers of the electorate as we know from their comments when interviewed, and that no doubt depressed his vote. But on the other hand the constant insistence of the Tory propaganda rebounded against them, as those of the the electorate who are able to think for themselves reacted against it and voted accordingly.

It was the latter who brought about the unexpected recovery of the Labour vote, aided by Corbyn's performance in the campaign.
.

... According to the tally's of those who do these things , had labour achieved 2500 extra votes in specific key constituancies, they would have had an over all majority, similarly had the Tories achieved an extra 250 votes in others they would have had their majority. So making absurd claims of overall victories winners and losers is a bit rich. Both major parties were neck and neck.
Other democracies can operate with a proportional representation system whereby the final representative assembly reflects how people voted. The advantage of that system is that it forces a more consultive assembly as coalitions are more likely.

 

[Zlatan]

... According to the tally's of those who do these things , had labour achieved 2500 extra votes in specific key constituancies, they would have had an over all majority, similarly had the Tories achieved an extra 250 votes in others they would have had their majority. So making absurd claims of overall victories winners and losers is a bit rich. Both major parties were neck and neck.
Other democracies can operate with a proportional representation system whereby the final representative assembly reflects how people voted. The advantage of that system is that it forces a more consultive assembly as coalitions are more likely.

But ends up with only ever a minority ,and potentially weak, government.
For an argument against PR look at Italy.

 

[Zlatan]

Why not? do explain your very odd logic, it really doesn't make ny sense does it? the two things are entirely different and unrelated

Ofcourse they are not. Just have a think OG.Thought my view was simplistic.?

 

[oldtom]

This is typical of fascist politics so no-one should be surprised that the tories, desperate to cling to power, would sink as low as collaboration with a bunch of orangemen, representative of the protestant terrorist groups, not decent Irishmen.



Expect this on a gable near you soon.......



Tom

 

[mike killay]

The Conservative manifesto was a farewell note.
The grey vote can be decisive, but the Cons decided to throw them away with,
1 Dementia Tax,
2 End of triple lock.
3 Winter heating allowance ending.
Many conservatives that I know (OAP age) simply did not turn out.

 

[Zlatan]

Great last 10 mins..Scotland England game.
Had Scotland scored another goal they would have won !

 

[mike killay]

Great last 10 mins..Scotland England game.
Had Scotland scored another goal they would have won !

It's only advisory

 

[flecc]

Great last 10 mins..Scotland England game.
Had Scotland scored another goal they would have won !

Yes, coming second in a football match is losing.

But coming second in a multi-competitor election as Jeremy Corbyn's Labour did is a success. It's why podiums have three positions for the successful competitors in multi-competitor events.

And how about Kensington? That's always been Conservative, even their ancient Britons painted themselves blue with woad.

But now astonishly it's been won by Labour for the first time ever and hardly anyone can believe it.

That is an amazing success for Labour and a huge slap in the face for the Tories.
.

 

[Danidl]

But ends up with only ever a minority ,and potentially weak, government.
For an argument against PR look at Italy.

... Define weak . Modern countries have effective civil services , the role of ministers primarily is to be a citizens control on these services. .. army, police, taxation etc. . Strong government is not necessarily good governance. Robust state institutions leads to good governance, when overseen.

 

[Woosh]

Strong government is not necessarily good governance

strong governments find it easier to take their countries to war.

 

[homemoz]

My view is that Corbyn did brilliantly. He motivated thousands/millios of young people who otherwise would not have voted & hopefully has stimulated an interest in politics. On a personal level he handled the abuse he receive with calmness and dignity which takes some doing. On the other hand I do not believe that he or the Labour party were quite ready for government. To quote another football analagy - they are an improving team who have pulled themselves out of the relegation zone. The challenge now is to build on that success. Corbyn is now 68 years old & may ir may not be the right person to do that. At the moment & on present form he deserves the chance. He got my vote & I have no regrets whatsover ever in voting for what he represents.

Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk

 

[Danidl]

Yes, coming second in a football match is losing.

But coming second in a multi-competitor election as Jeremy Corbyn's Labour did is a success. It's why podiums have three positions for the successful competitors in multi-competitor events.

And how about Kensington? That's always been Conservative, even their ancient Britons painted themselves blue with woad.

But now astonishly it's been won by Labour for the first time ever and hardly anyone can believe it.

That is an amazing success for Labour and a huge slap in the face for the Tories.
.

.. which part of not gaining overall control can be termed " winning. " The Tories lost significantly more seats than they had , Th Labour party gained significantly more seats than they had going into the election, the difference between overall winning control was 2500 votes or 250 volts . Both failed, but who do you think has the smile on their face today.
Again from outside UK politics, but with the advantage of being able to evesdrop on any TV programme, I was astonished by the level of insult, innuendo, and prejudice leveled against Mr Corbyn. I was much taken by his grace and clarity when explaining his position Never having heard him before.. He actually listen to and answered questions when quizzed by Mr Paxman

 

[Zlatan]

... Define weak . Modern countries have effective civil services , the role of ministers primarily is to be a citizens control on these services. .. army, police, taxation etc. . Strong government is not necessarily good governance. Robust state institutions leads to good governance, when overseen.

So part of Italy,s problems are not related to PR ?? Think you,ll find many think so.

Trouble with improving teams flecc is others improve too. In football as politics there is no time like the present. This election will be looked back on as a missed opportunity.
Will they get in next time ? Nothing they have done gives reason to think so., apart from bribing young vote ?? TM handed them a winning opportunity. They didn't utilise it. Will they be given another such chance and will they take advantage ? Things need to change to make me think so.