that is correct. If they want hard brexit, they'll have hard brexit.
If they don't want a deal, then we will have to wait.
There is no other way.
We'll be out of the EU soon enough.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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If they don't want a deal, then we will have to wait.
There is no other way.
We'll be out of the EU soon enough.
Such is the possible bluffing going on,that I wonder whether May is saying that we are leaving the single market and the customs union and suggesting that she is working towards no deal to unsettle the EU into a position that we are like a suicide bomber.....if the UK is to die then we will take the rest of the EU with us.
However,the EU may just call her bluff.
KudosDave
However,the EU may just call her bluff.
KudosDave
You have to be joking! they will look at us like something the cat dragged in by then.
Trust me, the EU is as much weakened by brexit as brexit weakens the UK's economy. It's a lose lose situation, nothing to be gained by delaying a deal.
The difference is the UK can dig itself out of the brexit hole, the loss to the EU will remain until a deal is done.
Barrier-wise, the UK can make imports from EU as expensive as EU makes UK's export. Nobody wins.
Of course, anyone who's opinion differs to yours is an idiot. It's getting tiresome.
Have you ever considered the notion that some people do not want to be members of the EU and IF there is an associated cost, they are prepared to accept that? Have you ever considered the possibility that people view EU membership as a risk with a future which that unknown? That people, on balance, view BREXIT as the most desirable of the two options?
My guess is that you are so negatively fixated that you no longer possess the capacity to consider the above possibilities. Everything, always, must be negative.
Additionally, what's all this garbage about the UK having no friends post BREXIT? This is a good indication of how fixated and irrational you have become. Why won't the UK have friends? I consider myself to be a good neighbour to mainland Europe and don't see why that should change. I have family who are Italian nationals living in Milan. Their mood is that in terms of friendship, relations and cooperation, that nothing should or needs to change. The only people talking of hostilities post BREXIT are left wing head-cases. If they feel hostile towards the EU, perhaps they should shut the F up.
Good old tillson same tripe every time, how about coming out with a really cogent argument backed by facts instead of these diversionary tactics?
When people voted in the Referendum do you really think that they gave all that much thought to their decision?
They voted on a whim mainly on false imformation, lies and their acquired prejudices due to a relentless campaign of anti EU propaganda going back to the day we joined in the media by and large, and their understanding at what was at stake, or what the EU does for them, or how it was organised was on a par with mankind's knowledge of the back of the moon.
And if you imagine that the other member states of the EU are disposed to view us as allies and friends any more, then you are in fact claiming that they are stupid and will stand for being treated in a shabby and underhand fashion by this country.
Stop living in La la land and face facts. We are going on a course decided by a small majority of people who really did not and in your case still don't realise what a mistake they are making, despite all the obvious signs of trouble looming.
And what is the big prize Brexit offers you?
The same set of idiots running the country that will take no notice whatever of the "Will of the people" but will hang you all out to dry at their convenience, in the insane belief that with the help of the media, despite whatever goes wrong they will get re elected again.
More likely civil unrest will become a problem as too much has been promised that hasn't a snowflake in hell's chance of coming true.
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You have no idea or insight into people's motives for voting the way that they did. You think you do, then you apply your own warped and biased take on it. Your opinions are just as devoid of facts as those that you criticise.
No tillson they are simply a statement of the situation that is obvious to anyone who cares to look at what was happening at the time.
Ignorance of the operation of the EU was endemic in this country and if you were to question people about it you would find that hasn't changed.
Why do you imagine the leave campaign stopped harping on about the economy and focussed on immigration?
Because they, unlike you, had accurately observed the mood of the public, and so had I in forecasting a win for the leave camp.
I'm afraid that you are the one with the biassed take on it as you don't want to reach the conclusion that actually gave leave the victory, pretending it was somehow a mixture of complex reasons, though this was the case in some instances, that would never have given the leave vote victory.
The fear of having to compete with immigrants was the obvious and deciding factor in the numbers game.
One fact you cannot escape, basing my forecast on my deductions forecast the correct result, yours didn't .
If Le Pen gets into power in France,she has said she will Frexit both the EU and the Euro,that will be the end of the EU.
Also probably the end of Brexit because we can hardly quit a club that no longer exists.
I find it ironic that it will also scupper the plans of May and Co,that a right wing French political movement has destroyed the options of a right wing British government.
The uncertainty of Trump,Brexit,May,Le Pen,Merkel and the battle between globalisation and protectionism would appear to not have a happy ending,but I just don't know how it will all end up.
KudosDave
Also probably the end of Brexit because we can hardly quit a club that no longer exists.
I find it ironic that it will also scupper the plans of May and Co,that a right wing French political movement has destroyed the options of a right wing British government.
The uncertainty of Trump,Brexit,May,Le Pen,Merkel and the battle between globalisation and protectionism would appear to not have a happy ending,but I just don't know how it will all end up.
KudosDave
I agree there were many reasons why people voted Brexit,but May and Co have hi-jacked Brexit for right wing motives that rarely aligns with the motives that most voters thought when they originally voted.
KudosDave
Two problems there, we have no means available to "pull ourselves" out of the "Brexit hole" so why get in it?
And the last paragraph is yet another reason Brexit is a bad idea.
And by this time it would be interesting to know how many who voted for Brexit have come up with justifications for their vote rather than the truthful one that they feared competing with immigrants.
And the irony of that is?
That the Government is not going to do other than continue with immigration at the same or higher levels for the sake of expedience, meaning that the driving force of "The will of the people" has been completely ignored but labelled "Under control"
How long before this creates a rather unpleasant reaction among those most opposed to immigrants?
The telegraph this morning
Revealed: Education system to be overhauled
with new ‘T-levels’ to plug post-Brexit skills gap
On the face of it a great idea but where are these technically skilled people going to find employment?
First we need to re-industrialise the country , and since this will require automation, surely logic dictates instead of producing technically skilled Plumbers there might be a need for Engineers instead.?
"
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
First build our industries. we are awash with Graduates who we can't give a worthwhile level of employment to that the poor kids deserve, before filling the dole queues with Technically skilled kids too.
Otherwise it will just be more of the old
"What do you say to someone who has just Graduated with honours?
Big Mac and Fries please."
Revealed: Education system to be overhauled
with new ‘T-levels’ to plug post-Brexit skills gap
On the face of it a great idea but where are these technically skilled people going to find employment?
First we need to re-industrialise the country , and since this will require automation, surely logic dictates instead of producing technically skilled Plumbers there might be a need for Engineers instead.?
"
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
First build our industries. we are awash with Graduates who we can't give a worthwhile level of employment to that the poor kids deserve, before filling the dole queues with Technically skilled kids too.
Otherwise it will just be more of the old
"What do you say to someone who has just Graduated with honours?
Big Mac and Fries please."
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France is not the US, you don't get to be president with a minority of voters...
FN scores over recent years:
EU elections 25% (proportional vote)
Regional elections 27% (proportional vote)
Last presidential election 18% in the first round (majority vote)
Never over 6% in the Assembly in the entire history of the party, 3.7% last time around and 2 members. (majority vote)
Say she doubles her voters, which would be a political earthquake, that means only 36% of the votes.
FN scores over recent years:
EU elections 25% (proportional vote)
Regional elections 27% (proportional vote)
Last presidential election 18% in the first round (majority vote)
Never over 6% in the Assembly in the entire history of the party, 3.7% last time around and 2 members. (majority vote)
Say she doubles her voters, which would be a political earthquake, that means only 36% of the votes.
Yes. Why is he SO negative the whole time? In the words of Christopher Hitchens 'You give me the awful impression of someone who hasn't ever read any of the arguments against your position".
There is no balance. As you rightly say there are obvious risks of staying in the Union as well as coming out. But the way the man speaks its as if the risk is all one way. This is blatantly not the case.
And others here repeat the idea that we will have no access to the single market. That is such utter crap. Even with no deal we will have all the access we want - on WTO terms. Which means a what is it 3% tariff? (corrections no doubt will arrive but so long as its less than the drop in the pound we're fine - plus of course the chances of the Germans wanting any tariffs on us buying thei BMWs Audis and Mercedes are SO LOW its very probable to me there will be no tariffs to most trade between us) The drop in the pound will take care of that - we'd still be way cheaper than before the vote.
But to some everything is negative.
What about Dyson's announcement the other day? Investing here another £3.5b? Adobe recently announced a major investment saying Brexit was of no consequence to them.
Why do so many organisations like having a base in the UK? Common law. We have common law which means once a case has been judged one way you can't then change it - like you can with Roman law (which they have in most (all?) EU states). That will not change. Common law is an absolute boon for us. Its not going anywhere.
But all we hear from some is a stream of negative. Nothing positive to say. No acknowledgement of the risks of staying - no nuanced understanding of how come so many people voted the way they did - just some blanket 'they're all thick stupid middle Englanders' - is it surprising so many people voted to leave when the CBI the TUC the NFU and most other trade organisations and international bureaucracies and every politician Cameron and Osborne could call a favour from told us to stay? Talk about against all odds! What a shock result!
But here we are.
To me the important thing is not so much Brexit - which is a done deal now - its how we reform internally once its done - how we create a more thriving and vibrant economy open to new markets and the like. Thats where things get really interesting. And the results we probably won't see for 20 years or so.
As the Chinese curse goes - oh to live in interesting times.
My view is Le Pen will do well but will fail in the final vote. I hope she fails. Her economic platform is dire - total protectionalism - it would wreck the French economy.