Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

As I said earlier, the PIP payment is not being cut. The government are taking steps to look at whether it should be extended to more people than are currently in receipt of the payment. You can't cut something that was never there in the first place.

Are you overdue a dental appointment 'tillson'? You really should make one and have some wisdom teeth fitted!

As I suggested to you previously, you should speak to some of those who have had their benefit CUT. I tell you the truth 'tillson' whereas your news sources are all propaganda organs for the tory Party and they just lie to the suckers who buy the rags or tune into the media.......and the suckers believe lies, indeed, they can't get enough of them!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Surprisingly, although I think you are wrong, I am less affected by reading your insults against parliament than when you insult ordinary people that you have never met or heard of.
May be I identify myself one with the plebs.

If you do then why do you support Brexit which is clearly not in any way going to serve their interests?
And for the life of me I do not see how referring to Brexit voters as being misguided and misinformed insults them.
It is simply the truth.
When something is as obvious as that what is the problem you have with it?
What is the relevance of your remark about the fact that I have never met them? I could just as easily and illogically respond neither have you.

So what? is it now necessary to wait till you have met 65 Million people before you can form an opinion?

Do you realise how comical that is?
"Hang on I'll get back to you once I have spoken to the entire population of the UK?"

 

[oldgroaner]

The Sun is having a go at the Telegraph

The Telegraph reported that the PM was preparing to say that those who come to the UK after she triggered Article 50 could not have the automatic right to stay after Britain formally leaves the bloc.

The cut off date could be around March 15, once the Article 50 Bill which is currently in the Lords, goes through Parliament.

Figures in the EU have been pressuring the Prime Minister to delay the cut-off date until around 2019.
But there are fears that could spark a huge jump in the number of EU migrants coming to the UK before then.

Government figures have also considered suggestions that the cut-off date should be the referendum date last June, but lawyers feared this approach would be illegal.

But Downing Street played down the remarks about a cut-off point this morning.

A spokesperson said that the report was “speculation” and that no decisions had yet been made on a cut-off point.

Sounds like someone at the Telegraph got it "Bigly" wrong.
Imagine how this reflects on our bargaining position with the EU parliament, they must think they are dealing with Circus Clowns.

 

[oldgroaner]

"
Brexit: John Major accuses Theresa May's Government of misleading the British people
Sir John also warned against using Parliament as a 'rubber stamp' for Ms May's Brexit Bill
Former Tory prime minister Sir John Major has accused Theresa May’s Government of misleading the British people over Brexit with “rosy confidence”, half-truths and “sky high” hopes.

In an extraordinary intervention, Sir John cast doubt on the “enticing” promises being offered to voters and attacked Ms May and her ministers for saying nothing about massive Brexit costs – including a potential £60bn divorce bill – and major potential damage to the NHS and welfare.

As Lords debated the Bill that will allow Ms May to trigger Brexit nearby, Sir John reproached the Prime Minister for trying to use Parliament as a “rubber stamp” for her plans."
He said: “We cannot move to a radical enterprise economy without moving away from a welfare state.

“Such a direction of policy, once understood by the public, would never command support. It would make all previous rows over social policy seem a minor distraction.”

Heresy! out with the blazing torches and pitchforks!
Holy Brexit Batman!

 

[oldtom]

Of course I do not want to be thought a fool, but as far as jumping on the wagon is concerned, I can't see what can be achieved by exaggeration.
I regard your recent posts on benefits for the economically inactive EU immigrants and running like lemmings over a cliff edge as exaggerations.
This thread is about facts. Let's stay focussed on them.

Did something happen to you when you were young? A playground fall and you banged your head perhaps?

I have been trying to work out what it is that's wrong with you because some of the stuff you come out with on here suggests your mental development seems to have stalled somewhere in your past.

It is really difficult to take someone seriously who feels the need in post #12366 to expound that 'This thread is about facts'.......you don't say! I just wish there had been a clue in the title.

Are you unable to see the irony of preaching about facts when the very people you appear to idolise for achieving the referendum result and pitching the nation into disarray, lied through their teeth to the people of this country. That's right; the facts that they purveyed were all lies and many of those who subsequently voted for secession have come to regret their foolishness now that the picture has become clearer as to what leaving entails, not to mention the cost.

You don't seem to accept that Farage & Co plus the far-right of the tory Party are fascists and that they very deliberately played to the racists in the UK with their soundbite proclamations in the run up to the referendum. Was it their rhetoric which inspired you to vote for 'Brexit' or do you consider yourself a free-thinking citizen, untainted by the tory propaganda thrust in front of you every day, who thought deeply about the issue and decided secession is the best way forward for the British nation? I'm assuming here that you did actually vote that way and indeed are old enough to cast a vote.

I won't ask why you think these fascists want the UK to be out of the EU as I know there are no facts that you might bring to bear which could answer that question satisfactorily. Now, I'm guessing here and that's a fact!......but I suspect you are in denial about these political rabble-rousers being fascists, as you probably think that that epithet is only for foreign dictators and not for we Anglo-Saxons who are above such primitive nonsense.

Obviously, you are never going to be persuaded that secession from the EU is completely the wrong thing for the British nation but I'm bound to say that you really do look foolish with the baseless flights of fantasy in which you indulge frequently, in your attempts to explain how 'Brexit' will be great....sometime......in the future.

Your case is no more than the wishful thinking of a rather supercilious supporter of right-wing extremism but hey! - you could always do another one of your informative infographic thingies with lots of pretty colours. They at least brighten up the page.

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

The Sun is having a go at the Telegraph

The Telegraph reported that the PM was preparing to say that those who come to the UK after she triggered Article 50 could not have the automatic right to stay after Britain formally leaves the bloc.

The cut off date could be around March 15, once the Article 50 Bill which is currently in the Lords, goes through Parliament.

Figures in the EU have been pressuring the Prime Minister to delay the cut-off date until around 2019.
But there are fears that could spark a huge jump in the number of EU migrants coming to the UK before then.

Government figures have also considered suggestions that the cut-off date should be the referendum date last June, but lawyers feared this approach would be illegal.

But Downing Street played down the remarks about a cut-off point this morning.

A spokesperson said that the report was “speculation” and that no decisions had yet been made on a cut-off point.

Sounds like someone at the Telegraph got it "Bigly" wrong.
Imagine how this reflects on our bargaining position with the EU parliament, they must think they are dealing with Circus Clowns.

I would have thought that EU people are entitled to all the rights of pre A50 until we leave the EU. If May feels that she can take those rights away post A50 but prior to us exiting,then I can see another court case May v ECJ,some EU citizen who is on legal aid.
May is getting good at wasting money on court cases that she keeps losing,she's getting used to be a loser.
KudosDave

 

[Wicky]

I guess we'll see an increase in planting oak trees to prepare for Brexit, so sometime in the future we can rebuild our navy and begin the resurgence of our Empire across the world, beginning with a glorious morale boosting naval battles with the Spanish followed by liberating our old colonies esp in America.

 

[Danidl]

I would have thought that EU people are entitled to all the rights of pre A50 until we leave the EU. If May feels that she can take those rights away post A50 but prior to us exiting,then I can see another court case May v ECJ,some EU citizen who is on legal aid.
May is getting good at wasting money on court cases that she keeps losing,she's getting used to be a loser.
KudosDave

The earliest date ,beyond which non British EU citizens might be stripped of UK residence rights , would be the day after the UK parliament has passed the current bill. Any later date would be a matter for negotiating with the EU team.

Should the UK choose to operate with an earlier date, there is nothing to stop them so doing, but they would be a pariah state, and any agreements negotiated with the EU would be voided.
The ECJ would not be available as a dispute resolving mechanism, and it would probably end up at the UN.
Nothing of any legal consequence in regard to brexit has yet occurred
In my opinion.

 

[Danidl]

brexit is the will of this parliament. Are you going to call parliament insane and idiotic too?
The point is, brexit is not terminal.
Sooner or later, it will come to a point where we as a nation will have to take a decision, either be a wholehearted, fully participant member in the European federation project or we will have to leave.
If we leave in 10 years time, who says that it will be any easier?

Woosh, Brexit is now the will of your Commons, based on what many , maybe even a majority, might think as erronous thinking. A 52\48 split cannot be construed as a " will of the people". It is a wafer thin majority. Your MP s have been bullied into complying with this , and been told that public anger will result if they do not honour ,this.That is bullying and intimidation. Your judiciary at its highest level have been called "enemies of the people". Again I state that I am surprised by the behaviour of the Labour opposition, who have appeased the government party.
Your house of lords will in all probability comply with your Commons , because of long standing principles of not defying the lower house, then you will have your Brexit.

I would not be as sanguine as you in assuming that re-entering a union with the rest of Europe, is a foregone conclusion. When bridges are burnt they have to be rebuilt and it is London which is burning the bridges. Rejoining the EU means renegotiating an entire package.

There is a folksong called a "parcel of rogue's" written by I think by Robbie Burn s( could be wrong here) regarding the Scottish act of union 1701 , which bears listening to.

 

[oldtom]

This is how some German people recently portrayed Mrs Mayhem and her pet project to destroy every last connection between the British people and democratic socialism:



Tom

 

[oldtom]

The fascist-owned rag and mouthpiece for tory central office, the Daily Mail, has excelled itself recently.

Perhaps even the blinkered bigots who contribute to this thread can spot the hypocrisy here:



Tom

 

[anotherkiwi]

This is how some German people recently portrayed Mrs Mayhem and her pet project to destroy every last connection between the British people and democratic socialism:

View attachment 17960

Tom

Ahhcht! Carnival!

 

[oldgroaner]

The fascist-owned rag and mouthpiece for tory central office, the Daily Mail, has excelled itself recently.

Perhaps even the blinkered bigots who contribute to this thread can spot the hypocrisy here:

View attachment 17961

Tom

Hypocrisy? the Daily Mail? Never, it's just a case of

 

[oldgroaner]

"
Lords vote AGAINST Britain keeping single market access in latest Brexit victory
THE HOUSE of Lords have rejected a amendment to the Brexit bill which would have pushed for the UK to remain in the single market after leaving the EU."

Well that wasn't much of a rebellion was it?
And this morning the reader comments have suddenly changed to "Lets keep the wise old lords" from "Get rid of the old parasites" of yesterday.

Article 50 NOW!

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Daily Mail
"
Ukip at war as Farage calls for party's only MP to be kicked out in row over Nigel's knighthood

• Nigel Farage called for Ukip MP Douglas Carswell to be thrown out of the party
• Said Mr Carswell had 'sought to split and divide UKIP in every way imaginable'
• Comes after donor Aaron Banks blamed 'dullards' like Mr Carswell for defeat

Writing in The Telegraph, Mr Farage said: 'As a party, how can we let a man represent us in the House of Commons who actively and transparently seeks to damage us?

'I think there is little future for UKIP with him staying inside this party. The time for him to go is now.'

According to The Daily Telegraph, leaked emails 'show Mr Carswell mocked Mr Farage's chances of an honour after it was turned down, saying he should be given an award 'for services to headline writers'.'

Apparently Carswell isn't as Daft as he looks!

" an award 'for services to headline writers'.'
Doesn't that just Sing?

 

[oldgroaner]

Another Mail Exclusive
"
Theresa May's top security advisor quits after being accused of 'mansplaining' to the PM and annoying Donald Trump

• Sir Mark Lyall Grant has resigned as national security advisor after 18 months
• He was accused of 'mansplaining' or being condescending to women by sources
• It is also claimed that Sir Mark did not hit it off with President Donald Trump

Not much job security in the Security Adviser line of work either side of the Atlantic it would seem,
and here is a reader comment
From Sonia Roberts, Honiton, United Kingdom, about 4 hours ago

Although in my sixties, I am glad that these dinosaurs are going! They have been holding us back, as a Nation and have no real diplomatic skills, as they have been bound to the EU way of things for too long, They have no understanding of the real world and no loyalty to helping our great Nation rise again, above the lesser countries of the EU, that have bullied us for so long. It is not their place to denigrate the PM or the elected President of America - if they are wrong for their jobs, then time and history will prove them wrong!
"have no real diplomatic skills"
"lesser countries of the EU"
What manner of individual holds and states such a view?

 

[oldgroaner]

Donald Trump accuses Obama of orchestrating protests and leaks against him
In interview with Fox, president says – without evidence – his predecessor ‘is behind’ demonstrations over travel ban and national security leaks
Donald Trump has accused former president Barack Obama and his “people” of organizing the demonstrations that have roiled city streets, airports and town halls during the first weeks of his presidency.

In an interview with Fox and Friends, which will air on Tuesday morning in the US, he also suggested Obama and his allies were behind the leaks of classified information from the White House to the press.

There is no evidence that the former president has had any hand in either activity.

Trump was asked by the Fox interviewer whether he believes Obama is involved in organizing protests, including the recent spate of raucous Republican town hall meetings, and “if he is, is that a violation of the so-called unsaid president’s code?”

“No, I think he is behind it. I also think it’s just politics. That’s just the way it is,” Trump said in the pre-taped interview, a portion of which was released on Monday night.

Trump continued: “You never know what’s exactly happening behind the scenes … I think that President Obama’s behind it because his people are certainly behind it.”

Can you believe that people actually voted for Trump?

 

[shemozzle999]

Hansard - Yesterdays House of Lords sitting:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2017-02-27/debates/E22CE0EF-FD2B-461D-97B8-871A1FCF87CE/EuropeanUnion(NotificationOfWithdrawal)Bill

Details of the division - all other amendments withdrawn or not supported:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2017-02-27/division/6ACFED00-733D-4629-9648-212A42B3EF61/EuropeanUnion(NotificationOfWithdrawal)Bill?outputType=Names

 

[oldtom]

What manner of individual holds and states such a view?

A racist misandrist is the proper description, I believe.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Can you believe that people actually voted for Trump?

yes. That is to me a sign that democracy is working. Pollsters have until now adjusted their polls to fit previous results, to reflect the average participation of different age groups and social classes. Often, they find that poor, young and less educated people participate much less in politics. Social media change that when the issue is Trump or brexit. More of them came out to vote. Quite right too.