Yes she had no problems getting work but guiding and instructing at time , around 10 years ago, seemed impossible. Went over border to Italy..no problems. She worked in Andorra..no probe..but France ???!! Might have changed a bit now but suspect its still not as it should be..ie meritocracy..but we all hail eu / France as shinninng example.. They are not.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I don't get it...
are you saying that you think the French are bad for protecting their local workforce and making it hard for immigrants like your daughter to get a job?
or are you saying the EU is a good thing because they've improved the situation so people like your daughter can now get a job in France much more easily.
It seems to me like your saying the freedom of movement of workers thats been promoted by the EU is a good thing.
A few years ago a proposal was made to build a small housing estate on the site of an disused hospital in the market town where I live. This was adjacent to open pasture land used for public access. The local residents divided into two factions. One faction agreed with the developers proposal to build a 100 metre temporary access road at the edge of the open access land to improve access to the building works. This would prevent vehicles passing a school & GP surgery and using narrow roads & lanes to access the site. The pasture land would be reinstated at the end of the works. This faction proposed what they stated would be a "rational campaign" which did nonetheless highlight perceived dangers to residents & property. The other faction developed a campaign called "Save our........" & embarked on a social media campaign with black & white images of diggers and and trucks decimating green fields. It was also suggested that the access road would be start of a gradual process of erosion of the making the access land available for building by the local council.
Needless to say, emotions ran high and tempers frayed. At one point a leading figure in the Save campaign saw me carrying a leaflet from the other side, stopped her car literally in the middle of the street - got out & started verbally abusing me as being implicit in the access road campaign. In fact I had been given the leaflet a couple of minutes earlier & was taking to work to read. Although, I was very shaken I actually wrote to her later that day to apologise for the misunderstanding & got a very gracious reply in return.
At the end of the campaign - the Save campaign had 6000 signatures - against the 300 for the access road. The housing estate is now nearly completed & there have been incidents of damage to cars but no injuries to residents although arguably a significant degree of inconvenience. The access road was never built. The point that I am making is that although both campaigns were speculative the emotional intensity of Save was much more effective. Many of the signatories had never even been near the land in question.
To my mind the recent Brexit campaign has been about perception and scapegoating with very little rational argument on either side. The leave campaign were much better at using charismatic figures with emotionally based arguments & had the ideal sitting duck scapegoat. This has left retainers like myself feeling frustrated and marginalised. A couple of weeks ago, my wife went to lunch with three friends who all voted leave. All the group had strong views on immigrants one had been actively "de-friending" people who disagreed with her views. This was hard for my wife who felt she had to keep quiet to enjoy the lunch.
All I hear on the news & media is that the British people voted for Brexit. I do not see any recognition that 48% of us wanted to stay. Reconciliation is about bringing people together regardless of difference & acknowledging different points of view. To do this someone has to take the first step. For the first time in my life, I am truly fearful for the future & I have lived in London when the IRA was active in the 1970's & in Wolverhampton during the "race riots" during the 1980's & early 90's. Right now I can see the rise of the far right as a real possibility with whatever that might bring. For me the biggest problem is the perceived lack of interest in reconciliation by the victors & of a future dominated by anger, mistrust and fear.
Needless to say, emotions ran high and tempers frayed. At one point a leading figure in the Save campaign saw me carrying a leaflet from the other side, stopped her car literally in the middle of the street - got out & started verbally abusing me as being implicit in the access road campaign. In fact I had been given the leaflet a couple of minutes earlier & was taking to work to read. Although, I was very shaken I actually wrote to her later that day to apologise for the misunderstanding & got a very gracious reply in return.
At the end of the campaign - the Save campaign had 6000 signatures - against the 300 for the access road. The housing estate is now nearly completed & there have been incidents of damage to cars but no injuries to residents although arguably a significant degree of inconvenience. The access road was never built. The point that I am making is that although both campaigns were speculative the emotional intensity of Save was much more effective. Many of the signatories had never even been near the land in question.
To my mind the recent Brexit campaign has been about perception and scapegoating with very little rational argument on either side. The leave campaign were much better at using charismatic figures with emotionally based arguments & had the ideal sitting duck scapegoat. This has left retainers like myself feeling frustrated and marginalised. A couple of weeks ago, my wife went to lunch with three friends who all voted leave. All the group had strong views on immigrants one had been actively "de-friending" people who disagreed with her views. This was hard for my wife who felt she had to keep quiet to enjoy the lunch.
All I hear on the news & media is that the British people voted for Brexit. I do not see any recognition that 48% of us wanted to stay. Reconciliation is about bringing people together regardless of difference & acknowledging different points of view. To do this someone has to take the first step. For the first time in my life, I am truly fearful for the future & I have lived in London when the IRA was active in the 1970's & in Wolverhampton during the "race riots" during the 1980's & early 90's. Right now I can see the rise of the far right as a real possibility with whatever that might bring. For me the biggest problem is the perceived lack of interest in reconciliation by the victors & of a future dominated by anger, mistrust and fear.
Well, if you had been called fascist, racist, xenophobic, thick scum by remainers how would you feel?
I think there's a lot of have cake and eat it at the heart of brexit. I find it shameful the way brexit became about a "what's in it for me" mentality instead of playing a proactive role in the world
Except of course you made that up, didn't you?
Just why are you doing that?
You seem to be deeply offended when anyone disagrees, and points out the flaws in your argument.
What you really find offensive is that people disagree with your point of view, and dare to tell you!
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Off topic as always, just another anti French comment.
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I thought Cameron was a good guy but he lost all the credibility he gained over 6 years in government by this stupid referendum. It has split the country,at this stage with animosity but I can see this getting nasty as people get affected by the outcome.
I just don't know how Theresa May is going to pull us all together,It could open again hostilities in Northern Ireland,the Scots could break away from the UK,it will destroy living standards by the working poor,the Europeans will blame us if the EU breaks up over this.
In the short term some businesses have hedged against the low £ v $ but in the longer term prices will have to rise or companies will look for savings....read into that redundancies. Kudos and its sibling companies will probably take it on the chin for a while but the losses will be hundreds of thousands,you can hardly blame me for being fed up about Brexit,the tax take to the revenue will be considerably reduced in 2017.
As yet the Leavers are probably not much affected by the Brexit vote,I wonder if they will reconsider if it starts to adversely affect them,my friend who was an ardent Brexit but only was interested in reducing immigration is quite shocked the adverse effect on his business already,he didn't think about the economy.
I don't think Cameron had any thoughts that all this would be the effect of losing the referendum,I notice he is very quiet at the moment.
KudosDave
I just don't know how Theresa May is going to pull us all together,It could open again hostilities in Northern Ireland,the Scots could break away from the UK,it will destroy living standards by the working poor,the Europeans will blame us if the EU breaks up over this.
In the short term some businesses have hedged against the low £ v $ but in the longer term prices will have to rise or companies will look for savings....read into that redundancies. Kudos and its sibling companies will probably take it on the chin for a while but the losses will be hundreds of thousands,you can hardly blame me for being fed up about Brexit,the tax take to the revenue will be considerably reduced in 2017.
As yet the Leavers are probably not much affected by the Brexit vote,I wonder if they will reconsider if it starts to adversely affect them,my friend who was an ardent Brexit but only was interested in reducing immigration is quite shocked the adverse effect on his business already,he didn't think about the economy.
I don't think Cameron had any thoughts that all this would be the effect of losing the referendum,I notice he is very quiet at the moment.
KudosDave
Off topic as always, just another anti French comment.
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Yes there's a novel by Camus called The plague that captured my experience. I worked in the NHS post 2008 and we all thought up to three years after we would be unaffected. Then suddenly overnight the management consultants arrived and two thirds of a specialist unit disappeared. Brexit will be more of the same downstream I think,and it will hit the poor hardest.
But had you? I haven't seen anyone calling all Brexiters all or any of those. What I have seen is many accusing some Brexiters of falling into one or more of those categories. And they have been right, since there was abundant evidence of some of those unpleasant factions taking strong Brexit positions.
But I can understand the frustration of the vast majority of decent Brexiters, since there is no equivalent insult that can fairly be levelled at Remainers. Since they are clearly not racist, xenophobic or fascist, the worst they could justifiably be called at times was liars, not too effective when the Brexiters themselves often uttered such obvious lies.
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The answer is that I'd feel dreadful. When I was verbally abused in the street, I felt humiliated, hurt and very angry. At other times I have been abused physically and verbally because of not fitting in. It's not a great feeling to have but it doesn't solve anything either. The question is where to we go from here? As a remain person I do feel powerless & would now look to the leavers to try and reach out more regardless of the past.
As for your last sentence Dave, I think Ca-moron probably reckons he's well shot of the situation after baling out. To be fair to him, his position had become a 'Damned if you do; damned if you don't' situation, possibly partly because of his own lack of political nous. His last couple of months in office became a real 'Sword of Damocles' over his Premiership.
I'm in complete agreement with the rest of your piece and I find the present situation has taken on a strangeness I can't really explain. I think there may be a feeling abroad that things are okay now that the dust has settled; that the world hasn't ended and our lives are continuing as normal, so this 'Brexit' thing hasn't really been so bad.
Unfortunately, I don't believe the present situation will stay that way for very long and I feel sure there will be adverse consequence further down the road. Many will do the ostrich thing and hope anything bad or dangerous passes them by but sooner or later, we will need to live outside of a mutual-interest federation and walk the high wire without a safety net. Had we not p'd off our neighbours in the two large states just across the channel, we may have been able to manage that with skill and care. Because we have p'd them off, I suspect they will not pass up any opportunity for some schadenfreude.
Tom
No , I,m saying in theory any qualified skiing instructor within eu should according to eu legislation be able to get work instructing..fact was they simply could not. I,m not passing judgement with way. I,ve been visiting Alps / Pyrenees for 40 years. You,ll find all sorts of nationalities in ski chalets, working tables, serving in bars etc etc. You,ll find fre nch skiing instructors. Is it free movement or not ? Which is it ?
Skiing instructing in France was a closed shop. You couldn't even take an English instructor on trips without it causing problems. We had one expelled off slopes for " helping"..
But the point was and is , rightly or wrongly its been my experience the French simply ignore any rules they feel like. Not sure its a history thing , culture or whatever, but compared to UK they do.
I remember one morning a young French lad (perhaps14) rode down library steps, accross square, lent his trials bike against wall , walked into shop and bought his baguettes. Then did reverse journey. Nobody as much as raised an eyebrow. In England the old ladies would have battered him..its just a different way of looking at laws..
Like I said earlier...it cuts both ways ..but the French will ignore what doesn't suit them. We tend to take note and do what we are supposed to. This has caused issues accross eu.
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flud, I don't think you understand 'free movement' correctly. It's just mean you are free to apply for a job that you qualify for, not that you can practice as you do in the UK. Not just France, Germany is also pretty strict on qualifications too. As with any ski instructor 'helping' on the piste, the piste is not public path. If that person instructs, he/she must carry professional identifications and must be insured for this activity. French ski instructors wear uniform for a reason.
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This is the sort of tolerance that I like, I hate how up-tight the English can be. After all, what harm did he do? Has the world ended?
And it's not just the French who are laid back about laws, the Italians are just as sensible. There for example the compulsory crash helmet law is optional, there is little recognition of lower age limits for riding scooters/motorbikes, basically they make their own minds up about what applies to them, and the police often co-operate.
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So Flud, can we just establish once again that the problem you have is with the UK, not with the EU.
It might even appear you're a little be jealous of how the French operate
It might even appear you're a little be jealous of how the French operate
Do you not think that the massive delays at Dover,due supposedly to increased security as a result of the recent terrorist attacks are mainly a protest.
For gods sake we are an island,it is more difficult to get weapons into our country than mainland Europe. Why would a terrorist go through all the difficulty of getting weapons into the UK and then go through the risk of shipping them out again through Dover. When he can buy what he likes in the Ukraine and ship overland with minimal risk.
The French sent one security guy over to Dover on one of the busiest weekends of the year,just to cause maximum disruption,it was an anti-UK protest,probably anti-Brexit.
If they were so concerned about arms into France they should have closed the motorways and back roads from Belgium,Switzerland and Italy,but that would have disrupted mainly their own people.
It is the French being French and we might as well get used to it,because they will do similar every time the Brexit negotiations dont go their way.
I am told by informed sources(got that from the Mail)that the French have a way of controlling immigration,they get a migrant applicant to fill a 37 page form,all in French,which has to be handed into an office in Lyon,which is only open alternate Thursdays,not including Saints days....I exaggerate but the principle is there,we in the UK appear to play the game fair,as do the Germans.
KudosDave
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