Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

That scene reminds me of Trump's Proud Boys.
Unless I am mistaken, the Mail and zlatan posted about Savile weeks before.

No, I never mentioned Saville. I made the point way before all this kicked off that Starmer refused, or said there was insufficient evidence, to prosecute or conduct an enquiry into the widespread abuse of girls, at the time thought to be Northern towns but later realised many towns and cities were involved throughout the country. Was around same time Corbyn sacked Champion when she asked for more dialogue about the problem.
Saville is simply being used as a vehicle. Neither Starmer or Corbyn did themselves or Labour Party any favours but then again Government did sweet FA about it. Boris has brought Saville into it so he can't be seen as racist. It's all a mess but in mean time the girls are having to get on with life with no support and the men who abused them with no punishment.
I witnessed what was going on (cars blowing horns at 3am outside girls houses, families being intimidated, girls being searched for) and wife closely involved with supporting some of the girls. It made me ashamed of our entire system and region. Police were turning a blind eye and even when there was masses of evidence only a tiny fraction were prosecuted. It really was appalling. And, I agree it's not fair to put all the blame on Starmer. There was widespread, gross, systematic failure at every level including Police, social services, council, education and health. That can't be the fault of one man.But Starmer, Corbyn or government of day certainly didn't help.
The problem was and probably still is to a hopefully lesser degree, when the system fails to protect any group. (this was predominantly white girls between ages of 13 and 18, generally already vulnerable) they and in this case their parents, turn to the extremes to find some semblance of security. EDL and extreme right did make a little head way into our authority but thankfully their help was actually totally refused. (EDL tried to organise a march in town, assuming they would be welcomed, they were shunned)

 

[oyster]

Sent you a PM about Lysine powder, but here's a link:

Best Naturals Lysine Powder, 1 Pound - 100% Pure : Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

Best Naturals Lysine Powder, 1 Pound - 100% Pure : Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

www.amazon.co.uk

Lysine appears to do absolutely nothing. No change whether I take it or not.

 

[guerney]

Lysine appears to do absolutely nothing. No change whether I take it or not.

Are you saying you've tried it? AKAIK it's harmless, if it doesn't work. Depending on your diet, you may need to consume about 2g to 4g a day - that sort of quantity can work to prevent and accelerate healing of cold sores (yes, that's a different virus). In any case, in the absence of an actual medical treatment for Shingles, trying something else seems like your only option. Avoid arginine?

 

[guerney]

No, I never mentioned Saville. I made the point way before all this kicked off that Starmer refused, or said there was insufficient evidence, to prosecute or conduct an enquiry into the widespread abuse of girls, at the time thought to be Northern towns but later realised many towns and cities were involved throughout the country. Was around same time Corbyn sacked Champion when she asked for more dialogue about the problem.
Saville is simply being used as a vehicle. Neither Starmer or Corbyn did themselves or Labour Party any favours but then again Government did sweet FA about it. Boris has brought Saville into it so he can't be seen as racist. It's all a mess but in mean time the girls are having to get on with life with no support and the men who abused them with no punishment.
I witnessed what was going on (cars blowing horns at 3am outside girls houses, families being intimidated, girls being searched for) and wife closely involved with supporting some of the girls. It made me ashamed of our entire system and region. Police were turning a blind eye and even when there was masses of evidence only a tiny fraction were prosecuted. It really was appalling. And, I agree it's not fair to put all the blame on Starmer. There was widespread, gross, systematic failure at every level including Police, social services, council, education and health. That can't be the fault of one man.But Starmer, Corbyn or government of day certainly didn't help.
The problem was and probably still is to a hopefully lesser degree, when the system fails to protect any group. (this was predominantly white girls between ages of 13 and 18, generally already vulnerable) they and in this case their parents, turn to the extremes to find some semblance of security. EDL and extreme right did make a little head way into our authority but thankfully their help was actually totally refused. (EDL tried to organise a march in town, assuming they would be welcomed, they were shunned)

Would better funding of Social Services, Education, Police and Council have helped? Would more support (also as money) for these victims help them? It'll lead to higher taxes y'know... to enable greater expenditure. Isn't QE up to about £1Trillion now? Buoying assets, creating an ever greater wealth disparity and increasing poverty. The poor can't storm castles with pitchforks and torches anymore - the 1% occupy a country which has no physical location, untroubled by taxes.

 

[guerney]

Lysine appears to do absolutely nothing. No change whether I take it or not.

Does your condition worsen or improve with sunlight? Would an IR heat lamp aid healing?

 

[oyster]

With all the desertions and his determination to stay, I think Boris Johnson has a secret ambition to run the country single handed, taking all cabinet and advisory posts.

Should be fun.
.

Bearing in mind that his other hand appears always occupied. Or did I mis-hear some of the comments made about him?

 

[oyster]

Seems even the otherwise seemingly supine speaker ain't too happy:

Commenting on the link between the abuse levelled at Starmer and Johnson’s comment last week, Hoyle said he had already described Johnson’s language last week as inappropriate. He said:

I know it has been reported that some abuse was directed at the leader of the opposition yesterday related to claims made by the prime minister in this chamber.

But regardless of yesterday’s incident, I made it clear last week that while the prime minister’s words were not disorderly they were inappropriate.

As I said then, these sorts of comments only inflame opinions and generate disregard for the house and it is not acceptable.

Our words have consequences and we should always be mindful of the fact.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

No, I never mentioned Saville. I made the point way before all this kicked off that Starmer refused, or said there was insufficient evidence, to prosecute or conduct an enquiry into the widespread abuse of girls, at the time thought to be Northern towns but later realised many towns and cities were involved throughout the country. Was around same time Corbyn sacked Champion when she asked for more dialogue about the problem.
Saville is simply being used as a vehicle. Neither Starmer or Corbyn did themselves or Labour Party any favours but then again Government did sweet FA about it. Boris has brought Saville into it so he can't be seen as racist. It's all a mess but in mean time the girls are having to get on with life with no support and the men who abused them with no punishment.
I witnessed what was going on (cars blowing horns at 3am outside girls houses, families being intimidated, girls being searched for) and wife closely involved with supporting some of the girls. It made me ashamed of our entire system and region. Police were turning a blind eye and even when there was masses of evidence only a tiny fraction were prosecuted. It really was appalling. And, I agree it's not fair to put all the blame on Starmer. There was widespread, gross, systematic failure at every level including Police, social services, council, education and health. That can't be the fault of one man.But Starmer, Corbyn or government of day certainly didn't help.
The problem was and probably still is to a hopefully lesser degree, when the system fails to protect any group. (this was predominantly white girls between ages of 13 and 18, generally already vulnerable) they and in this case their parents, turn to the extremes to find some semblance of security. EDL and extreme right did make a little head way into our authority but thankfully their help was actually totally refused. (EDL tried to organise a march in town, assuming they would be welcomed, they were shunned)

Champion resigned. In the wake of her criticism towards corbyns approach to the EU referendum. Let's try not to emulate boris, shall we?

 

[Zlatan]

Jonathon.

Sarah Champion was sacked by Jeremy Corbyn over Sun article on sexual exploitation of white girls

Jeremy Corbyn sacked Sarah Champion after she claimed Britain has "a problem" with British-Pakistani men raping vulnerable white gir...

www.politicshome.com

Open to interpretation I suppose.


I, ll accept your apologies gracefully. Unless ofcourse you think the last comment is about EU.???

Basically she was asked to leave post for saying it as it was. Gangs of Pakistani men, 95% of whom were Muslim, were abusing vulnerable white girls.

 

[oldgroaner]

so what do you think Labour should do to win votes?

Zlatan has already mentioned the problem with general education and attainment among Labour MPs compared to the conservatives.

So what? we have seen the so called benefits of Eton level education, it never stops the likes of Johnson becoming total twats in puberty.

I remember a very old truism
"Employ a University graduate while they still know everything"

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Jonathon.

Sarah Champion was sacked by Jeremy Corbyn over Sun article on sexual exploitation of white girls

Jeremy Corbyn sacked Sarah Champion after she claimed Britain has "a problem" with British-Pakistani men raping vulnerable white gir...

www.politicshome.com

Open to interpretation I suppose.
View attachment 45651

I, ll accept your apologies gracefully. Unless ofcourse you think the last comment is about EU.???

Basically she was asked to leave post for saying it as it was. Gangs of Pakistani men, 95% of whom were Muslim, were abusing vulnerable white girls.

Champion was appointed Shadow Minister for 'preventing abuse and domestic violence' in 2015.[16] She resigned from this position on 28 June 2016, in the wake of criticism of Jeremy Corbyn's approach towards the EU referendum following a vote to leave the EU.
Above is Wikipedia. There was her opinion piece in the sun. That, however, was a part of what happened. Not the full story you're portraying it as.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, I never mentioned Saville. I made the point way before all this kicked off that Starmer refused, or said there was insufficient evidence, to prosecute or conduct an enquiry into the widespread abuse of girls, at the time thought to be Northern towns but later realised many towns and cities were involved throughout the country. Was around same time Corbyn sacked Champion when she asked for more dialogue about the problem.
Saville is simply being used as a vehicle. Neither Starmer or Corbyn did themselves or Labour Party any favours but then again Government did sweet FA about it. Boris has brought Saville into it so he can't be seen as racist. It's all a mess but in mean time the girls are having to get on with life with no support and the men who abused them with no punishment.
I witnessed what was going on (cars blowing horns at 3am outside girls houses, families being intimidated, girls being searched for) and wife closely involved with supporting some of the girls. It made me ashamed of our entire system and region. Police were turning a blind eye and even when there was masses of evidence only a tiny fraction were prosecuted. It really was appalling. And, I agree it's not fair to put all the blame on Starmer. There was widespread, gross, systematic failure at every level including Police, social services, council, education and health. That can't be the fault of one man.But Starmer, Corbyn or government of day certainly didn't help.
The problem was and probably still is to a hopefully lesser degree, when the system fails to protect any group. (this was predominantly white girls between ages of 13 and 18, generally already vulnerable) they and in this case their parents, turn to the extremes to find some semblance of security. EDL and extreme right did make a little head way into our authority but thankfully their help was actually totally refused. (EDL tried to organise a march in town, assuming they would be welcomed, they were shunned)

Thatcher had Saville knighted ever after being warned off 5 times by the Civil Service.
Put the blame where it lies and he sucked up to the Royals too

 

[Zlatan]

Champion was appointed Shadow Minister for 'preventing abuse and domestic violence' in 2015.[16] She resigned from this position on 28 June 2016, in the wake of criticism of Jeremy Corbyn's approach towards the EU referendum following a vote to leave the EU.
Above is Wikipedia. There was her opinion piece in the sun. That, however, was a part of what happened. Not the full story you're portraying it as.

If you took the trouble to read your own wiki link you would realise you are mixing up 2 events separated by about a year. Yes, she was sacked (or forced to resign?) for reasons you list, but then reappointed, only to be asked to leave again.
Your incident is dated 2016,the one I, m referring to 2017.
Get your facts straight Jonathon.

Reread the bit I, ve surrounded in red. It's from your own link.
Your double apology will be gracefully received.

 

[Zlatan]

Thatcher had Saville knighted ever after being warned off 5 times by the Civil Service.
Put the blame where it lies and he sucked up to the Royals too

At time I had a mate quite high up in BBC. He reckoned they, d known about it years and some places/stations refused his admission on premises. Saville thought himself above the law, which he was for a while. Why nothing was done is sheer scandal and as I, ve said earlier, both this and problem I mentioned are nothing to do with individuals. It's systemic failure, corruption and false priorities by establishments /institutions/authorities. Blaming individuals is a cop out, but its what our country does, but then we are surprised when nothing changes.
Much as I don't think Starmer will or should be pm this attacking him is pathetic. He can only act on information, evidence and situation as presented to him by the system. Its the system at fault. Not Starmer.
I, d guess at every level he is a thoroughly decent bloke, just not capable of being a pm. Trouble is none of them are.

 

[Woosh]

He can only act on information, evidence and situation as presented to him by the system. Its the system at fault.

He couldn't do much about it. The problem with the PPS when they have to decide whether to go ahead with a case is the probability of conviction. In Savile's case, the plaintiffs refused to testify in Court.
Would you continue with the case if you were in the shoes of the lawyer who were in charge?
After his death in 2011, there were no longer the threat of being sued for defamation, witnesses came out in large numbers and the table was turned.

 

[Zlatan]

He couldn't do much about it. The problem with the PPS when they have to decide whether to go ahead with a case is the probability of conviction. In Savile's case, the plaintiffs refused to testify in Court.
Would you continue with the case if you were in the shoes of the lawyer who were in charge?
After his death in 2011, there were no longer the threat of being sued for defamation, witnesses came out in large numbers and the table was turned.

I agree with all that Woosh. Not sure Starmer was even head of CPS when Saville should have first been prosecuted but even if he was he can't act against either advice from underlings or evidence they provide. The Police /lawyers build case , send info etc, he makes decision based on what he has received. Its ridiculous to think he, d say don't prosecute if all evidence suggested he was guilty. He has nothing to gain at all.

 

[Woosh]

I agree with all that Woosh. Not sure Starmer was even head of CPS when Saville should have first been prosecuted but even if he was he can't act against either advice from underlings or evidence they provide. The Police /lawyers build case , send info etc, he makes decision based on what he has received. Its ridiculous to think he, d say don't prosecute if all evidence suggested he was guilty. He has nothing to gain at all.

the police knew about Jimmy Savile since 1964.
Numerous complaints were logged with different forces but they are not linked together until after his death. Mistakes were mainly with the police, may be they were influenced by his status and people who were his friends.

 

[Danidl]

At time I had a mate quite high up in BBC. He reckoned they, d known about it years and some places/stations refused his admission on premises. Saville thought himself above the law, which he was for a while. Why nothing was done is sheer scandal and as I, ve said earlier, both this and problem I mentioned are nothing to do with individuals. It's systemic failure, corruption and false priorities by establishments /institutions/authorities. Blaming individuals is a cop out, but its what our country does, but then we are surprised when nothing changes.
Much as I don't think Starmer will or should be pm this attacking him is pathetic. He can only act on information, evidence and situation as presented to him by the system. Its the system at fault. Not Starmer.
I, d guess at every level he is a thoroughly decent bloke, just not capable of being a pm. Trouble is none of them are.

Not a lot about this topic I know about but Saville used to front a charity called the Central Remedial Clinic, here in Ireland whose head was a Lady Goulding ... Note while we don't have titles in our country, we occasionally address people with what they want to be called, and hers was British Peerage. Anyway. There would have been tne Charity Fun Walks etc yearly. It was known here that Saville would not be unescorted while on his visits. .. We might be thick , but we are not stupid.

 

[oyster]

the police knew about Jimmy Savile since 1964.
Numerous complaints were logged with different forces but they are not linked together until after his death. Mistakes were mainly with the police, may be they were influenced by his status and people who were his friends.

Around about 1964, I was at primary school. We had a visit by a police person who had spent a week or two with Savile. It was presented as "lucky me - I met this television star". I didn't like him then. Nor at any time since. It was a combination of going to a boarding school and his frequent appearances that ended my watching Top of the Pops.

Do you remember, I think it might have been a segment of Nationwide, where he travelled around in a car with a double mattress in the back? I found that odd even then.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

If you took the trouble to read your own wiki link you would realise you are mixing up 2 events separated by about a year. Yes, she was sacked (or forced to resign?) for reasons you list, but then reappointed, only to be asked to leave again.
Your incident is dated 2016,the one I, m referring to 2017.
Get your facts straight Jonathon.
View attachment 45656
Reread the bit I, ve surrounded in red. It's from your own link.
Your double apology will be gracefully received.

Well there goes my attempt to get you to see things in context. You are as ever disingenuously trying very hard to put labour/corbyn/starmer in the frame while pretending not to do so. I give up, I think you either do not want to or cannot see the bigger picture