My old French (Paris Sport) bike has lasted very well over nearly 50 years and is now assisted by a powered front wheel and rear mounted battery. I am wondering whether it is worth changing from front and rear cable rim brakes. These are fine in dry weather but less so when the rim is wet, The front (powered) wheel could take a disc but not I think the rear wheel. So the options for improved braking seem to be front disc or Magura hydraulic rim-brake with the rear braking being cable or hydraulic rim-brakes. Any comments? Peter
Brake mods on an old tourer.
- Thread starter peterjd
- Start date
I have an old Raleigh Superbe with rod operated brakes and chrome steel rims. If I have been riding any bike with vaguely modern brakes and take out the old Raleigh on a wet day, the uselessness of the rod brakes and steel rims is terrifying. You pull them on and it just sails on happily until the rim dries and then it very gradually brings you to a halt. You really must abandon all modern ideas of last minute braking when you ride that, and need to think ahead. I never ride it fast for sure, or where I might be surprised by someone stepping into the road.
This is the ebay picture of it in the seller's garden from when I bought it a few years ago.
This is the ebay picture of it in the seller's garden from when I bought it a few years ago.
Have the forks got disk brake mounts? And are they up to the stresses of both motor and disk brake? Probably no disk brake mounts and not even cantilever/vbrake mounts? Does it have the terrible side pull brakes or slightly less terrible centre pull? You didn't mention if the rims are steel or aluminium.
I had a Claud Butler from a similar era to yours. I'd upgraded the Wienmann centre pull brakes that were almost ubiquitous at that period with some Mafac ones I happened to have, they were quite a bit better. Now my son has the bike, and has upgraded to Shimano dial pivot. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/dual-pivot-caliper.html That didn't require any frame change, and they are MUCH better. Probably on a par with cantilever brakes I have had. Still behind vbrakes and Magura rim brakes. I've never had disk brakes, but from what everyone says they are much better still (especially hydraulic).
I had a Claud Butler from a similar era to yours. I'd upgraded the Wienmann centre pull brakes that were almost ubiquitous at that period with some Mafac ones I happened to have, they were quite a bit better. Now my son has the bike, and has upgraded to Shimano dial pivot. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/dual-pivot-caliper.html That didn't require any frame change, and they are MUCH better. Probably on a par with cantilever brakes I have had. Still behind vbrakes and Magura rim brakes. I've never had disk brakes, but from what everyone says they are much better still (especially hydraulic).
Ally rims and original CLB side pull brakes, and yes you are right no disk brake mounts on forks, so Magura hydraulic or dual pivot might be the only useful options?
If you still have original wheels I'd check the rims for wear. And if the rims are steel I'd replace the wheels anyway.
I've got Magura rim brakes on our Motus (step through hub gears). They work quite well; the rims are pretty robust for longer life. Powerful rim brakes cause quite a bit of rim wear. I find the Magura a pain to change pads. Magura suggest removing the wheel as the easiest way to replace the pads, and the Nexus hub makes the rear wheel a pain to remove. That probably won't be such an issue for you.
I've got Magura rim brakes on our Motus (step through hub gears). They work quite well; the rims are pretty robust for longer life. Powerful rim brakes cause quite a bit of rim wear. I find the Magura a pain to change pads. Magura suggest removing the wheel as the easiest way to replace the pads, and the Nexus hub makes the rear wheel a pain to remove. That probably won't be such an issue for you.
Is keeping the original forks a must? Are replacement forks with a disk brake mount an option?
If the current brakes are functional i would only look at the front for a hydraulic disk upgrade anyway, iirc from my m/cycling days your front brake provides 70%+ of the braking effort so is where to focus..
If the current brakes are functional i would only look at the front for a hydraulic disk upgrade anyway, iirc from my m/cycling days your front brake provides 70%+ of the braking effort so is where to focus..
Whatever nostalgia these bikes bring, keep it away from any conversion. The higher average speed of such a converted bike will just emphasises all its bad points.
If you want to do a conversion, get a suitable donor. They don't cost much. Leave these relics for the museums.
If you want to do a conversion, get a suitable donor. They don't cost much. Leave these relics for the museums.
Thank you all for your useful comments. I am rethinking my need to make such mods (see below), and I will consult with my helpful local cycle shop.
Sorry Saneagle I have to disagree with you at least in my case. Perhaps because I've been a Quaker for more than 25 years and currently politically active, I take a very different view. My touring bike has been a faithful and effective companion for that time and my electric conversions have only aimed at compensating for my failing physical abilities - I am not particularly interested in speed - more to getting out in the countryside, on my own or with a local U3A group. Horses for courses I guess.
Best wishes
Peter
PS I do also drive a car but perhaps less than some, particular since I am well retired from a job.
Sorry Saneagle I have to disagree with you at least in my case. Perhaps because I've been a Quaker for more than 25 years and currently politically active, I take a very different view. My touring bike has been a faithful and effective companion for that time and my electric conversions have only aimed at compensating for my failing physical abilities - I am not particularly interested in speed - more to getting out in the countryside, on my own or with a local U3A group. Horses for courses I guess.
Best wishes
Peter
PS I do also drive a car but perhaps less than some, particular since I am well retired from a job.
And what sensible mudguards, the front one going well down with a mudflap completely protecting the bottom bracket area. These were once normal on all bicycles, unlike the ridiculously short ones on today's bikes which offer almost no protection at all.
Not to even mention the fully enclosed chainguard which can make a chain last decades. Today's bikes have many desirable gains, but some very real losses too.
.
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I recognise ans share your enthusiasm for keeping an old machine going (you've seen my old Raleigh Superbe) but saneagle is right about the flaws in some of these bikes. The braking in particular is terrible by modern standards and electrifying them WILL bring weaknesses like that to the fore. I am sure you will ride your converted antique in a very sedate way, but the braking on my old Raleigh is so bad, that after considering a front wheel motor for it, I soon relented and left it for occasional sunny day rides.
Fully agree with the above. I have a Claud Butler 531 tourer in very original condition. It is lovely to ride and I contemplated fitting a front hub kit to it when starting to feel the need for some electric assistance. I soon realised that there were just too many compromises and I would end up modifying it so much that it would lose most of it's originality and character. I was particularly concerned about whether the cantilever brakes would be up to the job.
Subsequent experience with fitting and using hub kits on a more modern hybrid and a rigid steel MTB has proved that I was right to leave the Claud alone. Now it gets used on those rare sunny days when I'm feeling fit. It is a treat to be reminded of my youth, and makes me grateful for the convenience of my more modern conversions the rest of the time.
I think you'll find the Magura require the same fork brake bosses needed for V-brakes, or at least my HS33 on our tandem do.
Our Maguras have real stopping power (think 2 riders plus camping kit and some steeeep hills - no problem!) and personally I can't remember any particular difficulty in changing the brake blocks.
As for rim wear, I guess so but after 5,000+ miles (or more - I don't keep count) we're still on the original rims, and anyway, I like wheel building so replacing the rims is of no concern but I appreciate that for many this might be a no-no regarding rim brakes.
I have to say that I am fond of old english bikes. They seem to last forever. Below are pictures of my Claud Butler 'odyssey'. I am not sure of the age, possibly mid 90s. It came originally with 27 inch wheels but is now fitted with 700c wheels.
I did have problems with rear rim wear, especially going down hills in wet weather, so I converted rear to disk using bracket with hub motor and has worked well.
I did have problems with rear rim wear, especially going down hills in wet weather, so I converted rear to disk using bracket with hub motor and has worked well.
Sorry to disappoint, but that bike is as English as a Wisper. It's just a standard Chinese bike imported through Taiwan with Claude Buttler branding. English bikes never had metric threads.
Wow. Thanks for posting this, that's the second successful rear disc brake conversion I've seen on the forum, the first being @harrys:
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/converting-a-little-folder.47261/#post-715109
Does seem worth trying to reduce rim wear by more than half, by replacing my rear v-brake with a disc brake, and I now have two conversion types to try.
2x Bicycle Cycling Front Rear Wheel Disc Brake Bracket Bike Frame Adapter Mount | eBay
Bicycle brake modification bracket, can be used to convert ordinary brake into butterfly brake. - Suitable for outdoor cycling, only compatible with disc brake pad. 2 x Disc Brake Modification Bracket.
www.ebay.co.uk
Disc Brake Adapter Converter Road Bicycle Frame V Brake Conversion Disc Brake | eBay
Baby Toddler Footmuff Cosy Warm Toes Buggy Pram Stroller Apron Liner Universal. 1 Pcs Bicycle Brake Adapter. Hydraulic Disc Brake For Mountain Bike MTB Front&Rear Cycling Oil Brake Disc UK. 1 Pair HB-100 MTB Hydraulic Disc Brake Calipers Front & Rear Line Pulling Black.
www.ebay.co.uk
Your Odyssey is a later "Claud", with I suspect an aluminium frame made in Taiwan. I doubt if it would have come with 27" wheels. The Odyssey still had a chromo-steel frame with 700c wheels in 1998:-
This is my CB Regent with a Reynolds 531 Super Tourist frame and 700c wheels:-
It was one model down from the more common Dalesman and was only made in black in 1998 (see catalogue link). The traditional steel frames were dropped shortly afterwards. I've only replaced the bar tape - everything else is completely original except the tyres and chain.
I did ponder hard and long about electrifying it and nearly pulled the trigger on a Cytronex kit, but apart from the high kit price I concluded that the brakes "as is" were not good enough and it would spoil the bike to make any changes.
1998 | Catalogue | Retrobike
www.retrobike.co.uk
It was one model down from the more common Dalesman and was only made in black in 1998 (see catalogue link). The traditional steel frames were dropped shortly afterwards. I've only replaced the bar tape - everything else is completely original except the tyres and chain.
I did ponder hard and long about electrifying it and nearly pulled the trigger on a Cytronex kit, but apart from the high kit price I concluded that the brakes "as is" were not good enough and it would spoil the bike to make any changes.
This is sad:
"The Claud Butler marque continues to this day, but ever since the sale of the Claud Butler name in 1957, the marque has simply been a valuable label for the shameless re-branding of generic and characterless products by a succession of exploitative trade-mark owners. Had the marque been allowed to end with the bankruptcy, then Claud Butler would surely be celebrated today as an equal to the most sought after names within our interest. After a couple of failed attempts to return to business in the lightweight cycle trade, a chronic illness finally claimed Claud Butler’s life in 1978. (See additions by Mick Butler below which has extracts from Cycling and Mopeds showing that Claud Butler re-opened a new business in 1959 after selling the original business to Holdsworth 1958/9)"
"The Claud Butler marque continues to this day, but ever since the sale of the Claud Butler name in 1957, the marque has simply been a valuable label for the shameless re-branding of generic and characterless products by a succession of exploitative trade-mark owners. Had the marque been allowed to end with the bankruptcy, then Claud Butler would surely be celebrated today as an equal to the most sought after names within our interest. After a couple of failed attempts to return to business in the lightweight cycle trade, a chronic illness finally claimed Claud Butler’s life in 1978. (See additions by Mick Butler below which has extracts from Cycling and Mopeds showing that Claud Butler re-opened a new business in 1959 after selling the original business to Holdsworth 1958/9)"
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