May 24, 20196 yr The one thing I find most frustrating about the Bosch system is the battery remaining charge readouts on their controllers and the battery itself. First of all I don't understand why it simply cant be expressed as a %, as every smartphone battery has been for years, for example. 20% chunks really are too big especially once the battery gets down below 40%. With one bar showing I might have enough battery power to do a 30km flat ride on Eco or I might run out in ten yards time... Secondly it is apparent to me, now I am doing a consistent commmute, that the 5 bars on my 500W/hr battery do not represent 100W each. Two days ago I set off with a full battery (100%). It dropped to 4 bars (nominally 80%) after 32km (mostly on Tour with a little Eco). This morning I had 3 bars showing when I set off of the same route, done in the same time, in the same conditions (maybe a little warmer ambient temperature) and with the same boost. So I had on the face of it at least 40% battery left when I set out this morning. But by the time I had done 20km it had dropped under 20% (i.e. gone down to one bar). Perhaps small differences in a ride might have accounted for a few %, but basically it looks to me like the 100-80% bar on the Bosch display in fact reflects 50% more Watts than the 40-20% one. I'll probaby get close to ending the commute tonight at 0%, so I'll keep an eye out to see if the drop off continues. Is this a known issue?
May 24, 20196 yr as you can see it is all over the place problem is it try to guess what range is left depending how you ride the bike and what mode was last used and it is just crap lol.
May 24, 20196 yr [ATTACH type=full" alt="DSC_0451.JPG]30568[/ATTACH][ATTACH type=full" alt="DSC_0452.JPG]30569[/ATTACH] as you can see it is all over the place problem is it try to guess what range is left depending how you ride the bike and what mode was last used and it is just crap lol. Yes but that's the difference between eco and turbo, nothing to do with the thrust of this thread.
May 24, 20196 yr Quote "Secondly it is apparent to me, now I am doing a consistent commmute, that the 5 bars on my 500W/hr battery do not represent 100W each." All batteries are like this, 100% to 50%, is not the same as 50% to 0%.
May 24, 20196 yr Yes but that's the difference between eco and turbo, nothing to do with the thrust of this thread. err i get more than 6 miles in turbo with a full batt lol
May 24, 20196 yr I just want to say I feel a whole lot better about the range on my 6 year old Bosch classic, was having range envy for the briefest of moments.
May 24, 20196 yr The one thing I find most frustrating about the Bosch system is the battery remaining charge readouts on their controllers and the battery itself. First of all I don't understand why it simply cant be expressed as a %, as every smartphone battery has been for years, for example. 20% chunks really are too big especially once the battery gets down below 40%. With one bar showing I might have enough battery power to do a 30km flat ride on Eco or I might run out in ten yards time... Secondly it is apparent to me, now I am doing a consistent commmute, that the 5 bars on my 500W/hr battery do not represent 100W each. Two days ago I set off with a full battery (100%). It dropped to 4 bars (nominally 80%) after 32km (mostly on Tour with a little Eco). This morning I had 3 bars showing when I set off of the same route, done in the same time, in the same conditions (maybe a little warmer ambient temperature) and with the same boost. So I had on the face of it at least 40% battery left when I set out this morning. But by the time I had done 20km it had dropped under 20% (i.e. gone down to one bar). Perhaps small differences in a ride might have accounted for a few %, but basically it looks to me like the 100-80% bar on the Bosch display in fact reflects 50% more Watts than the 40-20% one. I'll probaby get close to ending the commute tonight at 0%, so I'll keep an eye out to see if the drop off continues. Is this a known issue? Basically the resolution of the display method is very poor with just 5 bars. For example, with the 3rd bar displayed the available charge could be anything between 60% and 41% and with the 2nd bar displayed the charge could be anything between 40% and 21%. So if you start a journey with the 3rd bar showing and finish with the 2nd bar showing (and it could have been showing for a while) you could have used anything between 60%-21%=39% and 41%-40%=1% of charge. It's only displaying an estimate of charge available and the accuracy will depend on temperature, age of batteries, assistance level, terrain etc etc but the poor resolution of the 5 bar display is the biggest limitation. My Bosch Kiox display shows numerically the estimated distance left with a resolution of 1 km or mile and charge left with a resolution of 1%, this seems to work very well.
May 24, 20196 yr My Bosch Kiox display shows numerically the estimated distance left with a resolution of 1 km or mile, which is great. I never ever use the range feature, but the battery indicator looks just the job. https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/608251/files/12404927/800x700x2/bosch-kiox-display-2019.jpg
May 24, 20196 yr Author Yes but that's the difference between eco and turbo, nothing to do with the thrust of this thread. Was this a mispost? It's a new thread about exactly this issue !?
May 24, 20196 yr Author Basically the resolution of the display method is very poor with just 5 bars. For example, with the 3rd bar displayed the available charge could be anything between 60% and 41% and with the 2nd bar displayed the charge could be anything between 40% and 21%. So if you start a journey with the 3rd bar showing and finish with the 2nd bar showing (and it could have been showing for a while) you could have used anything between 60%-21%=39% and 41%-40%=1% of charge. It's only displaying an estimate of charge available and the accuracy will depend on temperature, age of batteries, assistance level, terrain etc etc but the poor resolution of the 5 bar display is the biggest limitation. My Bosch Kiox display shows numerically the estimated distance left with a resolution of 1 km or mile and charge left with a resolution of 1%, this seems to work very well. But the second issue makes the first one worse Basically I have a 40km commute. With the battery full and on Tour it uses one bar + 8km. The next day sees me down to 3 bars/nearly two. But on the third day, with the battery at the bottom of its 3 bar reading there's a good chance it will run out before I get back home. I mean it's not really a huge deal in the sense that that's still more or less 120km on mostly 100% boost in terms of total range. But it irritates me that the battery indicator can't be more accurate. It doesn't seem like it should be rocket science. Why not just set it up so that the battery reading is linear to the aggregate power left? Don't smartphones manage this?
May 24, 20196 yr Was this a mispost? It's a new thread about exactly this issue !? I see no mention of the displays estimated range in your post, so SW's post is off at a tangent as they often are.
May 24, 20196 yr https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/news/r200/ In field tests relating to the eBike range, previous results depended heavily on the rider and the external conditions. Rider weight, tyres, air pressure, surface, weather, rider performance and behaviour cannot be reproduced in all cases, so the results are not generally comparable
May 24, 20196 yr https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/news/r200/ In field tests relating to the eBike range, previous results depended heavily on the rider and the external conditions. Rider weight, tyres, air pressure, surface, weather, rider performance and behaviour cannot be reproduced in all cases, so the results are not generally comparable But he's only talking about the battery gauge, NOT the range feature doh.
May 24, 20196 yr the batt level and the range read out is all over the place as it try to guess what range is left depending on how the bike is being ridden. the app now works if you have kiox. Battery charge level (Android): The current battery charge level of your system is displayed next to the bicycle icon under "My eBike". This feature is available in conjunction with Nyon. https://www.elektrofahrrad24.de/bosch-display-kiox cant buy it yet tho and only comes with new bikes atm. Edited May 24, 20196 yr by soundwave
May 24, 20196 yr Why not just set it up so that the battery reading is linear to the aggregate power left? Don't smartphones manage this? I don't know whether the display claims to show range left, charge left or power left but from what you describe it does look to be rather poor across the range, has it behaved this way since the battery was new? I presume its a genuine Bosch battery that hasn't been re-celled. My iPhone battery indicator seems to drop quickly when the battery is below 30% or so, it's not an easy calculation.
May 24, 20196 yr I don't know whether the display claims to show range left, charge left or power left but from what you describe it does look to be rather poor across the range, has it behaved this way since the battery was new? I presume its a genuine Bosch battery that hasn't been re-celled. My iPhone battery indicator seems to drop quickly when the battery is below 30% or so, it's not an easy calculation. on my old intuvia display even the time went out of wack pmsl
May 25, 20196 yr The one thing I find most frustrating about the Bosch system is the battery remaining charge readouts on their controllers and the battery itself. First of all I don't understand why it simply cant be expressed as a %, as every smartphone battery has been for years, for example. 20% chunks really are too big especially once the battery gets down below 40%. With one bar showing I might have enough battery power to do a 30km flat ride on Eco or I might run out in ten yards time... Secondly it is apparent to me, now I am doing a consistent commmute, that the 5 bars on my 500W/hr battery do not represent 100W each. Two days ago I set off with a full battery (100%). It dropped to 4 bars (nominally 80%) after 32km (mostly on Tour with a little Eco). This morning I had 3 bars showing when I set off of the same route, done in the same time, in the same conditions (maybe a little warmer ambient temperature) and with the same boost. So I had on the face of it at least 40% battery left when I set out this morning. But by the time I had done 20km it had dropped under 20% (i.e. gone down to one bar). Perhaps small differences in a ride might have accounted for a few %, but basically it looks to me like the 100-80% bar on the Bosch display in fact reflects 50% more Watts than the 40-20% one. I'll probaby get close to ending the commute tonight at 0%, so I'll keep an eye out to see if the drop off continues. Is this a known issue? Buy a battery capacity meter, they start really cheap on ebay.....maybe someone here can even recommend one? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-60V-Lithium-Li-ion-18650-Car-Battery-Capacity-Indicator-Panel-Voltage-Meter/253554571316?hash=item3b0907b834:m:myqYmNy3O9GN4WHaquLf5WA regards Andy
May 25, 20196 yr Buy a battery capacity meter, they start really cheap on ebay.....maybe someone here can even recommend one? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-60V-Lithium-Li-ion-18650-Car-Battery-Capacity-Indicator-Panel-Voltage-Meter/253554571316?hash=item3b0907b834:m:myqYmNy3O9GN4WHaquLf5WA regards Andy it wont work as the batt has to talk to the motor and if there is anything in between it wont even power on.
May 25, 20196 yr it wont work as the batt has to talk to the motor and if there is anything in between it wont even power on. Why do you imagine they are being sold? Because you say they don't work? Think about it!! Of course you can attach such a unit with just a modicum of knowledge....just need the correct unit for the nominal battery voltage.
May 25, 20196 yr black ped that make dongles has tried it long time ago and it wont work with a way better meter than that and it will not turn on. you cant even probe the batt with a dvm as it wont turn fully on unless it is connected to the bike. bosch use a smart bms and it has to communicate with the motor controller to work and if you fry the bms the hole batt will be dead as you cant buy the bosch bms.
May 25, 20196 yr black ped that make dongles has tried it long time ago and it wont work with a way better meter than that and it will not turn on. you cant even probe the batt with a dvm as it wont turn fully on unless it is connected to the bike. bosch use a smart bms and it has to communicate with the motor controller to work and if you fry the bms the hole batt will be dead as you cant buy the bosch bms. A good reason not to buy Bosch! Here in Germany, many complain about them, the plastic gears and the lack of support from the company, once the guarantee is finished.... regards Andy
May 25, 20196 yr jimmy can recell the batts now for £300 and get 14ah in a pack as for the nylon gears no one sells them but you can now get the bearings replaced. https://www.performancelinebearings.com/
May 25, 20196 yr Why do you imagine they are being sold? Because you say they don't work? Think about it!! Of course you can attach such a unit with just a modicum of knowledge....just need the correct unit for the nominal battery voltage. The item you showed us is a voltmeter, it measures volts. soundwave quite rightly pointed out the Bosch batteries don't provide a voltage on their terminals until the controller has told them to turn on. Your voltmeter will measure the voltage but you'll have to break into the wiring loom somewhere to access the battery output / motor supply. The relationship between battery voltage and range is not straightforward and you might need to experiment to create a cross reference table.
May 27, 20196 yr Author A good reason not to buy Bosch! Here in Germany, many complain about them, the plastic gears and the lack of support from the company, once the guarantee is finished.... regards Andy I wouldn't say that. The Bosch ALP is a great system overall. Obvious it's priced as a premium system but at least I'm confient the battery won't expode when I'm charging it. I've done 1000 miles using it in the last 5 months and it's been brilliant. And the range is great. I just find it odd and a little frustrating that the battery meter doesn't show % battery remaining accurately when this would seem relatively easy to do.
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.