March 30, 20197 yr Which motor would you prefer for travelling between home and workplaces in a flat country? (Tuning is possible) Bosch Performance Line CX Pros: - Powerfull, maybe therefore also a long durability - Up to 120 cadance support Cons - Not efficient - Without support, a lot of resistance - Noisy Bosch Active Line Plus Pros - Efficient - Quiet - No resistance Cons - Less powerfull - Up to 105 cadance support
March 30, 20197 yr Not had a CX but I can't find any fault with my ALP as it does pretty much everything I ask of it.. You've not asked but I'm going to reply anyway.... 120 Cadence - mechanically you should be aiming for 80-90 cadence to save your knees and muscles Power - if you are in a flat country then power won't make any difference; 15mph/30kmh is the same regardless Resistance - they tend to be installed in heavy bikes so any resistance is undesirable (IMHO) If you are thinking of tuning then it makes almost no difference which one you choose
March 30, 20197 yr For flat commuting a hub motor will be better with less maintenance required and a more relaxing ride. Torque for acceleration/ climbing, surely for flat commuting you want a more relaxing commute. You mention tuning ( a dongle ?) in which case go legal and get an S -pedelec if you want speed or 40km/h riding.
March 30, 20197 yr Dizer, You appear to have answered your own question. Of the two motors, on the flat, the ALP is the clear winner. Above 15.5 mph it will be just like riding an ordinary, but heavier bike. Below 15.5 mph in a headwind you will get assistance when you need it. You will also appreciate the quietness of the ALP motor.
March 30, 20197 yr Dizer, I have a CX equipped mtb and an ALP equipped racing bike. For riding on flat routes I would choose the ALP. If you might sometimes ride up mountains then you will likely need the CX.
March 30, 20197 yr A "racing bike"? Like a road bike? I didn't know any road bikes came with Bosch motors (due to the 25kph restriction making them pointless). I thought it was low weight/low power motors only on those, like the Orbea Gain?
March 30, 20197 yr Cannondale Synapse Neo: https://www.cannondale.com/en/Great%20Britain/Products/ProductCategory.aspx?nid=e1887f30-a25a-4f9a-bcd4-792a7a7d965a
March 30, 20197 yr A "racing bike"? Like a road bike? I didn't know any road bikes came with Bosch motors I am not sure Andy but I think Cannondale are the only ones using a Bosch motor for racing bikes. I had tried a Cube racing bike with a Fazua motor but I am not very good on hills and I really struggled with it. I would have liked to have tried an Orbea Gain but the LBS that stocks them would only let me ride one around their flat car park. Alf Jones cycles near Wrexham let me take out the Cannondale for a proper test ride and I was very impressed with it. At around 18 kg its no light weight, but I was hoping a racing bike would enable me to average around 3 or 4 mph faster then my CX equipped mtb and that seems to be the case.
March 30, 20197 yr Cannondale Synapse Neo: https://www.cannondale.com/en/Great Britain/Products/ProductCategory.aspx?nid=e1887f30-a25a-4f9a-bcd4-792a7a7d965a Nice. The range will be truly insane as you'll be above the cut off most of the time if you put any effort in at all. Obviously the extra weight will mean it's slower than a normal road bike except perhaps on pretty steep climbs, but you can be sure that you won't run out of puff all-day long.
March 31, 20197 yr dongle it and use a lower power mode Very tempting, but for the risk (tiny I know) of being involved in an accident and having the book thrown at me (possible prison sentence, financial ruin etc.) I just would not be able to enjoy my ridding. I have always been a bit of a worrier and if I doctored my bike the fact I would worry about it would possibly cause me to have an accident. If the law changed to allow say an assisted speed up to 20 mph then that would be a big boost for racer type pedelects but if the law changed and then someone badly injured a child by hitting them on a cycle track at say that 20 mph then there would be a huge back lash against pedelecs. There are some journalists and some papers that just love to take against certain things. If the law changed the assisted speed up to 20 mph then these papers and journalists would be going out of their way to find negative stories to hammer pedalecs. So all in all its probably best that the max speed of 15.5 mph, although rather annoying stays as it is, I would rather than it to change to 20 mph and within a couple of years a huge back lash occurring and pedelects be banned from the UK.
April 1, 20197 yr Author Thanks for all the advice! Suppose, hypothetical speaking, you want to cycle between 30-35km/h. Which motor will be the most efficient motor, the Active Line Plus, or the Performance CX? And why Edited April 1, 20197 yr by Dizer
April 1, 20197 yr Thanks for all the advice! Suppose, hypothetical speaking, you want to cycle between 30-30km/h. Which motor will be the most efficient motor, the Active Line Plus, or the Performance CX? And why 30-30? If you mean remaining legal, then the ALP is easier to get up to 30kph as it's lighter and zero resist. If you mean derestricted, then the CX has more power so can reach higher speeds. However assuming you are talking flattish or low gradients, the ALP will probably be more efficient at 30kph than the CX (apart from anything else it's Turbo is a slightly lower boosts (280% v 300%) and you can contribute to your speed more easily with your own efforts).
April 1, 20197 yr Thanks for all the advice! Suppose, hypothetical speaking, you want to cycle between 30-30km/h. Which motor will be the most efficient motor, the Active Line Plus, or the Performance CX? And why That will depend on your gearing, I pedal very easily past the cut off to 32 km/h, which seems to be my flatland speed, on the GSM powered bike with either chainwheel. Over and beyond air resistance means you have to adopt a different posture than sit up and beg. Last year I was even averaging 32 kph on the un-powered trike which probably has the aerodynamic drag of a triathlon style bike (except I'm lying on my back and not my front ). If you are reasonably strong and have a bit of cadence but you don't want to break any records a 38 to 42 tooth chainwheel seems to be ideal for maintaining 30 km/h
April 1, 20197 yr Author Sorry, i mean 30-35 km/h and derestricted. It almost looks if the ALP is a far better motor than the CX. The CX is powerfull and that's it. No other benefits. That will depend on your gearing, I pedal very easily past the cut off to 32 km/h, which seems to be my flatland speed, on the GSM powered bike with either chainwheel. Over and beyond air resistance means you have to adopt a different posture than sit up and beg. Last year I was even averaging 32 kph on the un-powered trike which probably has the aerodynamic drag of a triathlon style bike (except I'm lying on my back and not my front ). If you are reasonably strong and have a bit of cadence but you don't want to break any records a 38 to 42 tooth chainwheel seems to be ideal for maintaining 30 km/h I'm not sure if you ever tried the CX motor, but peddling harder than the engines support is not really doable.
April 1, 20197 yr Because of the gearing, nothing to do with the motor. Never tried but it is pretty easy to imagine and I just have to watch others around me ride one to see that it isn't. Almost anything will do 32 km/h unrestricted including my Mxus XF08 rear hub motor. A de-restricted Bosch, Yamaha or other will generally be able to cruise in the low 40's independent of type. Those using a "normal" sized chainring are easier to pedal over 25 km/h cutoff.
May 22, 20196 yr Whats the Start up behaviour like for ALP and PCX ie can they pull away at zero cadence or is it hard to pedal from stop?
May 22, 20196 yr Whats the Start up behaviour like for ALP and PCX ie can they pull away at zero cadence or is it hard to pedal from stop? Both motors the APL and the CX pull away really strongly from dead stop position. In fact if your on a hill then its quite easy to do a wheely by mistake with either motor if you start off in Turbo mode. I got around 3000 miles before replacing the chain on my CX equipped mtb, part of the reason for this I think is that I don't tend to start off in Turbo mode from a dead start. I think doing this probably results in stretching the chain and hence having to replace it fairly frequently.
May 22, 20196 yr If you are fit enough and expect to travel most of your time above 15mph you will probably be best off with a lighter bike and without electric assist. If you are older or have other issues or just want to go slower but easier after a long day at work differences like 105 or 120 cadence are unlikely to make much difference. ALP (or hub drive) are probably your best if you really do want assist.
May 24, 20196 yr Both motors the APL and the CX pull away really strongly from dead stop position. In fact if your on a hill then its quite easy to do a wheely by mistake with either motor if you start off in Turbo mode. Hmmmm .... having had the Crossfire with a rear hub motor and now the Crossfuse with a Bosch active line plus, I would have to say to the poster above that the rear hub motor gives a much bigger boost from a standing start. I think it's designed in to rear hub motors because they can put a lot of power through at start up without stressing the chain (but might be wrong). The Bosch ALP is ok but it doesn't deliver its proper power levels until you are doing 50- 60 cadence (again that's from memory and I might be wrong). Mike
May 24, 20196 yr Hmmmm .... having had the Crossfire with a rear hub motor and now the Crossfuse with a Bosch active line plus, I would have to say to the poster above that the rear hub motor gives a much bigger boost from a standing start. I think it's designed in to rear hub motors because they can put a lot of power through at start up without stressing the chain (but might be wrong). The Bosch ALP is ok but it doesn't deliver its proper power levels until you are doing 50- 60 cadence (again that's from memory and I might be wrong). Mike I think it's about what gear you are in. ALP has no issues with hill starts in a low gear, but in a high gear can be sluggish both uphill and on flat (as you say, presumably to protect the chain).
May 24, 20196 yr I think it's about what gear you are in. ALP has no issues with hill starts in a low gear, but in a high gear can be sluggish both uphill and on flat (as you say, presumably to protect the chain). Ah yes Andy you have reminded me why it was a problem(sort of) changing from the rear hub to the ALP. You have to remember with the ALP as you approach a junction to change down to a low gear so that you can get some reasonable assistance when you set off again. You don;t have to do this with the rear hub as it puts a lot of power into the drive no matter what gear you are in. I still find this a bit of an issue if I have had to unexpectedly stop the Crossfuse (ALP) on an uphill section and have sometimes had to do a circle changing down before being able to uphill again. (Mind you I wouldn;t swap back to the rear hub) Mike
May 25, 20196 yr I had a Cytronex for a long time before my cube and I tend to agree; the hub motor kicked in pretty much immediately compared to the ALP making the "traffic light dash" slightly easier on the Cytronex.
May 25, 20196 yr My Performance Line CX gives a nice extra nudge from the motor for a second or so when you start peddling to get you moving. It works very well and the only downside is that if you're coasting along without peddling, perhaps going slightly downhill, and then start peddling the extra nudge can be a bit alarming until you get used to it.
May 25, 20196 yr When we used to have the World Championships in Bristol, the hub-motors always pulled out an immediate lead of 5 to 10 meters on the crank-motors. That was also helped by throttles, which most hub-motored bikes had in those days.
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.