Help! Bosch 400Wh battery sudden death

[soundwave]

the bosch bms has a hand shake system so will only work with bosch motors and displays that it is compatible with.

problem is the bms must have been flashed with a eprom on the bms that was done after the battery was assembled at the factory and as it is read only will loose its data like a button batt in a pc motherboard going flat and loosing all the settings in bios.

so if the bms looses power for any reason the eprom looses its data and then wont power on at all even if the cells are good.

it is why the bms must be kept powerd when doing the recell and must be working as you can not buy them, fkn stupid if you ask me but bosch is a locked system like apple ect where you need a 5 dollar chip to fix the bms but if you dont have the data to flash to it your stuffed and is controlled buy bosch!

 

[Andy-Mat]

the bosch bms has a hand shake system so will only work with bosch motors and displays that it is compatible with.

problem is the bms must have been flashed with a eprom on the bms that was done after the battery was assembled at the factory and as it is read only will loose its data like a button batt in a pc motherboard going flat and loosing all the settings in bios.

so if the bms looses power for any reason the eprom looses its data and then wont power on at all even if the cells are good.

it is why the bms must be kept powerd when doing the recell and must be working as you can not buy them, fkn stupid if you ask me but bosch is a locked system like apple ect where you need a 5 dollar chip to fix the bms but if you dont have the data to flash to it your stuffed and is controlled buy bosch!

When reading such detail about Bosch products, it sort of "upsets me" for the people who are so caught out, and not even a clever DIYer, can do much to change things for the better with Bosch parts appatrently....
My thoughts (I have no hands-on experiences thank God!), are that there are maybe two possible roads for such owners to go down, three if they can simply throw more good money after bad.
There may be other better ideas that could be also be added to the list!
It will require a good home DIYer I suspect, or the help of one:-
1) on a bike where the motor is still good, remove everything electronic from Bosch and replace with other quality parts to get mobile again, as I do not remember ever seeing any mechanical Bosch problems here described, so the bike hardware is possibly basically good. Anyone who knows that better, please correct my thinking.
This would be then an e-bike that any reasonably good DIYer could maintain in good health.
2) If the motor is also irreparable, and the current cost of around 800 UK Pounds replacement, would buy a whole lot of new, non Bosch parts, including a hub motor, then maybe its possible to turn it into a front or rear hub e-bike, after stripping off all that is not needed, and replacing the middle bearing and crank assembly, with one taken from an old bike, possibly one that has been dumped, or is still owned. Welding may be needed of course! I myself use such bike parts to make fun gravity cars for my Grandsons, and many parts survive even the worst owners and their neglect IMO!
Chain alignment being important but possibly fiddly!
What say you Guys, is that a possible way to go for some, probably not all?
regards to all and thanks for any further and better ideas for old Bosch Bikes.
Andy

 

[Nealh]

With my brothers battery I missed out on some cells to play with, although only 2200mah cells they were pucker Blue 10a Samsung 22P's.

 

[Andy-Mat]

With my brothers battery I missed out on some cells to paly with, although only 2200mah cells they were pucker Blue 10a Samsung 22P's.

You are right, that would annoy me too.....
I have several flashlights working with 18650 cells, and to save and reuse the good ones from a defunct bike battery, seems to be a realy great move!
Other uses are also possible too!
It did not strike me until I read your post! Thanks.
Andy

 

[RoadieRoger]

When reading such detail about Bosch products, it sort of "upsets me" for the people who are so caught out, and not even a clever DIYer, can do much to change things for the better with Bosch parts appatrently....
My thoughts (I have no hands-on experiences thank God!), are that there are maybe two possible roads for such owners to go down, three if they can simply throw more good money after bad.
There may be other better ideas that could be also be added to the list!
It will require a good home DIYer I suspect, or the help of one:-
1) on a bike where the motor is still good, remove everything electronic from Bosch and replace with other quality parts to get mobile again, as I do not remember ever seeing any mechanical Bosch problems here described, so the bike hardware is possibly basically good. Anyone who knows that better, please correct my thinking.
This would be then an e-bike that any reasonably good DIYer could maintain in good health.
2) If the motor is also irreparable, and the current cost of around 800 UK Pounds replacement, would buy a whole lot of new, non Bosch parts, including a hub motor, then maybe its possible to turn it into a front or rear hub e-bike, after stripping off all that is not needed, and replacing the middle bearing and crank assembly, with one taken from an old bike, possibly one that has been dumped, or is still owned. Welding may be needed of course! I myself use such bike parts to make fun gravity cars for my Grandsons, and many parts survive even the worst owners and their neglect IMO!
Chain alignment being important but possibly fiddly!
What say you Guys, is that a possible way to go for some, probably not all?
regards to all and thanks for any further and better ideas for old Bosch Bikes.
Andy

 

[RoadieRoger]

Makes me glad that my my Ebikes are Chinese not Bosch powered when I read this nonsense .

 

[soundwave]

tbh my bike and original batt are still going but imo it is like mac or pc one is locked the other is open to do as you like.

i doubt i would ever buy one from new but i want more speed and less waight and no bike has that atm so can keep what i have going for a few more years yet.

50mph 50 mile range at that speed and 15kg is what i want

 

[Andy-Mat]

Makes me glad that my my Ebikes are Chinese not Bosch powered when I read this nonsense .

I like what you say and I agree, my e-bike is a fairly standard rear hub Chinese made offering, that has given me almost no problems, except with the throttle once in a rain storm!
It costed without import duty, about the same as a replacement Bosch motor, one that has been repaired, not a new one!! And came with all extras and a second battery, for about 900 UK Pounds.
But apparently Bosch also uses motors/parts made in China, but they do not publicize it!
Someone here mentioned it months ago, but I forget who it was, sorry. Maybe they will chime in if they read this topic.
I do not know how they knew, but guessing, maybe Bosch motor parts have Chinese symbols somewhere on them....and he saw that!!
regards
Andy

 

[soundwave]

i think the parts are made in china, like everything these days and assembled in Europe and then locked to the bosch firmware and then sent to haibike ect.

thus bosch have total control over the parts and the factory that make them.

apple does the same thing with there chips and if a factory is found selling them it is end of contract!

 

[soundwave]

My e-bike actually weighs less than 14kg has a range of 90 miles in eco and can be derestricted to 45mph (mine is not due to not feeling the need)

but it wont go 90 miles at 45mph tho will it lol.

so much for a green future pmsl

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[Nealh]

You are right, that would annoy me too.....
I have several flashlights working with 18650 cells, and to save and reuse the good ones from a defunct bike battery, seems to be a realy great move!
Other uses are also possible too!
It did not strike me until I read your post! Thanks.
Andy

I use 18650's from older batteries like you for multiple torch use as well as for using with various other portable devices. These other devices are mainly for my beekeeping, small light power sources to vape my bees for varroa treatment or use the same packs to power my 12v beevac for extracting swarms/colonies from hard to get places.

 

[soundwave]

I use 18650's from older batteries like you for multiple torch use as well as for using with various other portable devices. These other devices are mainly for my beekeeping, small light power sources to vape my bees for varroa treatment or use the same packs to power my 12v beevac for extracting swarms/colonies from hard to get places.

 

[mrchumpley]

thought I'd update this thread: in the end our LBS where we bought it contacted Bosch. They said they couldn't repair it but would sell us a new battery at 50% of cost. This seemed reasonable and we went for it.
Our LBS pointed out that Bosch apparently 'guarantee' that each battery is good for 1000 charges. They had worked out that our battery couldn't have had that many charges and put that to Bosch. Hence the offer.
I suppose some would say they should have replaced the battery as it failed to meet the promise made, but it wasn't worth quibbling about given that we'd probably had at least 500 charges out of it.

 

[vfr400]

thought I'd update this thread: in the end our LBS where we bought it contacted Bosch. They said they couldn't repair it but would sell us a new battery at 50% of cost. This seemed reasonable and we went for it.
Our LBS pointed out that Bosch apparently 'guarantee' that each battery is good for 1000 charges. They had worked out that our battery couldn't have had that many charges and put that to Bosch. Hence the offer.
I suppose some would say they should have replaced the battery as it failed to meet the promise made, but it wasn't worth quibbling about given that we'd probably had at least 500 charges out of it.

The bosch warranty on batteries guarantees that they will replace a battery if it fails within 2 years or reduces below 80% capacity. If you're a high mileage user, I would say that you're almost guaranteed a new battery if you get it tested one week before the 2 years is up. You have to pay a nominal fee to get it tested. Many Bosch dealers have the battery tester.

 

[georgehenry]

Nothing good about these locked down systems that stop or make it very difficult for you to repair them.

I have a Haibike with a Yamaha crank drive system that is tough and well made and I have had good usage out of. I bought it to open up the possibility of an off road commute to work, and for that it has been exceptionally good.

However I had an out of warranty battery/charger connector issue that I was given no support to fix and simply told that I needed to buy a new charger and battery.

I did manage to fix it myself, and all I needed to do was replace the connectors to the battery and charger. The connectors I bought of ebay were under a tenner.

But no help at all, we had to overcome the defeat bolts and open up the battery case with no idea what we were doing or what to expect.

I have a friend who is very technical capable and he soldered the connectors inside the case and after the repair has continued to work just as it did before.

As I posted on another thread recently, "It is now almost three years since my connectors broke and my original charger and 400Wh battery are still working really well and have powered my bike for another year and a further 1,326 miles and a total of 4,202 miles since that battery pin connector broke."

These are the battery and charger I was told could not be repaired and should be thrown away!

I have so enjoyed the capabilities of the Haibike and riding to work and back on it cross country that I considered buying a new one last year, but the thought of what could fail just outside the two year warranty and potentially write of an expensive bike made me hold off. So in my case if I had been treated differently they might have got a new sale.

 

[soundwave]

sounds like the shop got the batt replaced under warranty and sting you for 50% of the cost of it because bosch dont do the warranty replacements they are done via magura.

 

[Amoto65]

sounds like the shop got the batt replaced under warranty and sting you for 50% of the cost of it because bosch dont do the warranty replacements they are done via magura.

I don't think a 3 year old battery would be under warranty, so seems a pretty fair conclusion.

 

[soundwave]

yeah you wont get one for free if it was 2 years old even if it was under the charge cycles

 

[georgehenry]

Even if the cycle shop are pulling a fast one you are still getting a brand new battery at half price.