Bike throttles pedal resistance

[Luke12]

Hi,

I have tried a e-bikes over the weekend and am still struggling to decide on which one to buy. Should the e-bikes have a slight resistance when the pedal assist and motor is turned off? (leaving only the rider to pedal).

And also, what is the deal with throttles? Are these actually legal if they propel me to a maximum of 15mph with no actual pedaling?

Thanks guys!

 

[103Alex1]

Hi,

I have tried a e-bikes over the weekend and am still struggling to decide on which one to buy. Should the e-bikes have a slight resistance when the pedal assist and motor is turned off? (leaving only the rider to pedal).

Broadly, if they're crank drive bikes or geared hub motors they should feel pretty much exactly the same as those bikes would feel if they were not e-Bikes. If they're gearless hub motors / motors with regen you'll feel drag and they'll likely be considerably harder to ride than they would be if not e-Bikes.

And also, what is the deal with throttles? Are these actually legal if they propel me to a maximum of 15mph with no actual pedaling?

Thanks guys!

There are endless threads on this ! For all practical purposes on a 250W bike you should be fine though strictly the bikes should be 200W to be legal with a throttle.

 

[flecc]

There's no problem with having throttles in the UK on e-bikes with an up to 250 watt rating due to a DfT waiver.

There is some degree of resistance when pedalling almost all e-bikes with no power applied when compared to unpowered bikes. The fact that e-bikes are heavier will usually create slightly more rolling resistance. Some crank drive units use an additional chain drive sprocket and idler wheel(s) and those can add a slight transmission resistance. Most hub motors have freewheels which disconnect the motor when no power is applied so shouldn't add drag, but when new some additional drag can be experienced until a few miles have been covered to loosen them up.

Finally e-bikes often use fatter tyre sections than unpowered bikes and that can add quite a lot of drag when compared with skinny high pressure tyres.

 

[Luke12]

Thanks for the replies.

So a throttle that can be used without peddling still complies to UK traffic laws to be classed as a bike?
The only ebikes with no resistance to peddling are those with a geared hub motor?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Nearly all ebikes have either a crank-drive motor or geared hub-motor, neither of which have significant resistance when pedalling. Only a few bikes have direct-drive hub-motors, and they tend to be relatively expensive, and without throttles, So, find a bike with a throttle and enjoy it. You'll probably use the pedal sensor most of the time once you get used to it, but it's nice to have a throttle when you need it.

 

[Luke12]

Nearly all ebikes have either a crank-drive motor or geared hub-motor, neither of which have significant resistance when pedalling. Only a few bikes have direct-drive hub-motors, and they tend to be relatively expensive, and without throttles, So, find a bike with a throttle and enjoy it. You'll probably use the pedal sensor most of the time once you get used to it, but it's nice to have a throttle when you need it.

Thanks for your reply. Can I be able to use the throttle without peddling? Or will doing this violate the road traffic laws? It would definitely be nice to be able to have a throttle and would make my journeys a lot easier!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can use the throttle how and when you want. That's what it's for. The law is a mess at the moment. You won't be prosecuted for using a throttle. The DoT said so, but according to the present UK law, they''re not legal on bikes over 200w; however, about half the ebikes on the road have them and nobody has ever been prosecuted. The law will be sorted out in a couple of years time, but you'll still be able to use your bike with a throttle. They'll probably become legal then anyway.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the replies.

So a throttle that can be used without peddling still complies to UK traffic laws to be classed as a bike?
The only ebikes with no resistance to peddling are those with a geared hub motor?

Yes, throttles can be used without pedalling in the UK only within the EU, due to our currently separate EAPC law. There is an intention to harmonise our law with Europe within a couple of years, but that may still include throttle use and in any case, we have been guaranteed any change in this law will not be retrospective.

Most crank drives have virtually no power unit resistance when pedalling without power switched on, indeed I prefer the best ones in this respect. They will often have some of the other causes of resistance that I've mentioned though.

The best way to judge any e-bike's suitability is to try it, and we always strongly advise that.

 

[Luke12]

If the UK were to adopt the EU law on throttles, would that deem our current ebikes illegal? Or would we still be aloud to use our throttles as they were purchased before the change in law?

Thanks

 

[ghouluk]

If the UK were to adopt the EU law on throttles, would that deem our current ebikes illegal? Or would we still be aloud to use our throttles as they were purchased before the change in law?

Thanks

There is an intention to harmonise our law with Europe within a couple of years, but that may still include throttle use and in any case, we have been guaranteed any change in this law will not be retrospective.

looks like you'd be ok from flecc's post

 

[Luke12]

Ok, thanks for the answers.
Just didn't want to commit to the investment if I would have to adapt to new laws at a future date.

 

[kemi]

Hi,


And also, what is the deal with throttles? Are these actually legal if they propel me to a maximum of 15mph with no actual pedaling?

Thanks guys!

What bike did you try ? On pedelec 25 throttle only is for pushing the bike and cuts out at 5 km/h and on a pedelec 45 the cut is 20 km/h. What most dealers sell is Pedelec 25 and then throttle won't get you to 15 mph.

 

[ghouluk]

perfectly understandable

for reference, my novice view on throttles for the unfit (my wifes bike has one, but mine doesn't)

the throttle is great for starting on hills and in traffic if you don't have a torque sensor - my neo emotion kicks the motor in when you push hard on the peddles, hence setting off in traffic or on hills (particularly when you are turning out of a t junction on an uphill is really easy.

with frankies bike, you need to get a rotation of the peddles in to kick in the motor, and this can make starting off quite "wobbly" with the extra weight of the bike, so the throttle pays dividends here. If you have heavy traffic or lots of lights on your main ride, it seems similar to me (its also worth noting that the ebike makes it seem much safer to be in traffic on dual carriageways etc as you have quick power to get you across turns/lanes and of course out of the way of people.)

just an opinion of course, but something i never considered before buying.

 

[RobF]

Throttles are good for standing the bike up to get going quickly in traffic - my Brompton Nano is throttle only.

On t'other hand, I don't miss a throttle on the Rose/Bosch, which I thought I might.

The better crank drive systems now offer almost instant assistance, particularly if you are in one of the higher modes and give the first stroke on the pedal a hard shove.

 

[flecc]

What bike did you try ? On pedelec 25 throttle only is for pushing the bike and cuts out at 5 km/h and on a pedelec 45 the cut is 20 km/h. What most dealers sell is Pedelec 25 and then throttle won't get you to 15 mph.

Not so, throttles on most e-bikes can propel the bike to 15 mph which UK law allows. The above is mixing this up with those bikes which only have a walk alongside throttle. Those operate to only 4 mph (UK) / 6 kph (EU) so legal in the EU as well.

Any existing legal UK bike with a throttle operating to 15 mph will remain permanently legal after any future change in the law as stated by the DfT.

 

[ghouluk]

Those operate to only 4 mph (UK) / 6 kph (EU) so legal in the EU as well.

also known as "the most useless feature ever" imho

 

[RobF]

also known as "the most useless feature ever" imho

It's not the finest feature on my Rose/Bosch, although I have used it a couple of times on a steep slope when the bike was loaded with shopping.

One problem with it is the pedals creep round under load, so it can be a bit of a calf scraper.

 

[kemi]

Not so, throttles on most e-bikes can propel the bike to 15 mph which UK law allows. The above is mixing this up with those bikes which only have a walk alongside throttle. Those operate to only 4 mph (UK) / 6 kph (EU) so legal in the EU as well.

Any existing legal UK bike with a throttle operating to 15 mph will remain permanently legal after any future change in the law as stated by the DfT.

You are right and I stand corrected. I am from Denmark, so there is the cock-up

 

[flecc]

Understood Kemi. We in the UK seem to insist of doing things differently from anyone else, it must be confusing to others at times!

 

[kemi]

There's no problem with having throttles in the UK on e-bikes with an up to 250 watt rating due to a DfT waiver.


Finally e-bikes often use fatter tyre sections than unpowered bikes and that can add quite a lot of drag when compared with skinny high pressure tyres.

The worst thing for a biker on the latest and greatest racing bike, is to hear the dreaded sound of a mountainbike tire coming up from behind. It happens a lot where I bike, so the fat tires doesn't seem to slow them down all that much.