Bike Repairs

Hi everyone.

I took my Woosh Gran Camino into a local bike shop for some minor work on the gears and they said they couldn't work on it at all due to it having a throttle and being a legal grey area. Anyone else had this? Am I going to get this everywhere?

 

Cheers

Remove the throttle and take it back there. Tell them you've seen the error of your ways and you are a born again good citizen and will definitely not be refitting the throttle after they have repaired your bike.

Point out to them that it is legal as it isn't a twist and go meaning you don't have to pedla. Tell them they needs to get their facts right as it is a pedal first option and the throttle is legal as once one stops pedalling it then becomes inactive.

Also simply tell them the bike was sold as and conforms to EN15194 EAPC rules.

If the OP had the other type of throttle ie active all the time: Would splicing in a switch onto the throttle cable, to be switched on manually and only while pedalling, make an illegal throttle legal? Would that even work? "See? It's switched off orificer!" I've got a slightly faulty throttle I could try this with...

Edited March 17, 20242 yr by guerney

No throttle switches allowed so illegal.

Point out to them that it is legal as it isn't a twist and go meaning you don't have to pedla. Tell them they needs to get their facts right as it is a pedal first option and the throttle is legal as once one stops pedalling it then becomes inactive.

Hi Neal, I've seen discussions on this forum about when a throttle can and cannot be used but not having a throttle myself, I've not really taken more than a passing interest in the subject but having seen this post and in a recent discussion about throttles with my local club mates, I'm now wishing I'd paid more attention previously!

 

• So, a throttle that is active and can power the bike all the way to max speed WITHOUT pedalling, is known as a 'twist 'n'go' and is currently illegal in the UK and EU unless individual 'Type Approval' has been gained- so yes, I've got that.
  
• An exception to the above is if I understand this correctly, is that a means to activate the motor up to 6km/h without pedalling is ok, a mode often referred to as 'walk assist'
  
• Now to the bit I'm unclear on and that is the legality of having a throttle that can power the bike all the way to max speed providing you are turning the pedals - would you (or other forumite) be so kind as to provide a link to a governement or other authorititive source that clarifys this please as I for one and no doubt the OP will find this useful (and I'll be sure to book mark it too!).
  
• I have looked through EN15194 on a number of ocassions but the only reference to this subject I've found is in the pic below.
  

Many thanks

UK law simply states twist and go EPAC or ebikes aren't allowed unless registered as such. A pedal first activated bike in definition means it's not a twist and go.

One reason why Wisper have the Le1A class registration option for their bikes, allowing full twist and go and legal.

 

Flecc can likely give a better understanding of the situation but in my eyes I would have no worries if I were to operate with a thumb throttle .

 

Any how the future for UK EAPC will be cleared up when 500w and twist and go will be allowed no the UK mainland as the DFT realise that 250w is not enough power to encourage the less able to get about of for cargo usage.

Edited March 17, 20242 yr by Nealh

Hi everyone.

I took my Woosh Gran Camino into a local bike shop for some minor work on the gears and they said they couldn't work on it at all due to it having a throttle and being a legal grey area. Anyone else had this? Am I going to get this everywhere?

 

Cheers

Is there another bike shop not too far away? And what is it that you need done? In case of difficulty finding a friendly bike shop, please email support@wooshbikes.co.uk we will put you in touch with someone who can help.

UK law simply states twist and go EPAC or ebikes aren't allowed unless registered as such. A pedal first activated bike in definition means it's not a twist and go.

One reason why Wisper have the Le1A class registration option for their bikes, allowing full twist and go and legal.

 

Flecc can likely give a better understanding of the situation but in my eyes I would have no worries if I were to operate with a thumb throttle .

 

Any how the future for UK EAPC will be cleared up when 500w and twist and go will be allowed no the UK mainland as the DFT realise that 250w is not enough power to encourage the less able to get about of for cargo usage.

Any idea when these consultations and the changes will be finished and decided?

 

My Bafang 250watt BS01 has a throttle that works all the way to max speed in level 5 PAS, but not at other PAS levels. I could easily remove the throttle if I thought there was any realistic chance of being pulled over, but I don't think there is since I am living in a pretty empty rural area and only ride on empty roads. You rarely ever see the police at all around here.

 

I would be reluctant to remove the throttle because of its effect in level 5 PAS on the power output. I get about 500 watts showing on the screen monitor at max PAS level if I use the throttle and about 250 watts max when I don't use it and just pedal. The extra watts are only temporary, but are a godsend on steep hills.

 

The level of throttle assist released at max PAS setting may be down to what was arranged by the guy who built the bike for me and his use of software and cable to programme it. I have no programming cable and have never looked into changing it.

My Bafang 250watt BS01 has a throttle that works all the way to max speed in level 5 PAS, but not at other PAS levels. I could easily remove the throttle if I thought there was any realistic chance of being pulled over, but I don't think there is since I am living in a pretty empty rural area and only ride on empty roads. You rarely ever see the police at all around here.

 

I would be reluctant to remove the throttle because of its effect in level 5 PAS on the power output. I get about 500 watts showing on the screen monitor at max PAS level if I use the throttle and about 250 watts max when I don't use it and just pedal. The extra watts are only temporary, but are a godsend on steep hills.

 

The level of throttle assist released at max PAS setting may be down to what was arranged by the guy who built the bike for me and his use of software and cable to programme it. I have no programming cable and have never looked into changing it.

 

My BBS01B was so badly set up, I almost sent it back demanding a refund. What really helps on hills and everywhere else, is setting "Keep current" to 100%. My throttle-less BBS01B conversion eats hills for breakfast.

 

https://edrivenet.com/bafang-programming/

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185892483146

 

Software for PC:

https://penoff.me/2016/01/13/e-bike-conversion-software/

 

Android:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkopa.speeed&hl=en&gl=US

 

Edited March 17, 20242 yr by guerney

Ha, among All the dystopian futures that have ever been conceived, none have predicted the absurdity of needing legal documents to get you bike fixed.. None i have come across at least..)

No throttle switches allowed so illegal.

 

Would a small mechanical gizmo to phycically connect and disconnect the thottle connector, to only be used while I am pedalling, be construed as a switch? It'd beat the rozzer lift back wheel press throttle test.

 

Either that or making a little electronic gizmo monitoring speed via an additional external PAS disc on my BBS01B, automatically enabling and disenabling the throttle as legaly required. Or a GPS speed tracking phone app enabling and disenabling the throttle as legally required via bluetooth? Luckily I don't need a throttle, but it does seem many do - perhaps someone will make a throttle legalising retrofit kit for hub motored bikes, Bafang mid drives etc. if there's sufficient interest?

Edited March 17, 20242 yr by guerney

Hi Neal, I've seen discussions on this forum about when a throttle can and cannot be used but not having a throttle myself, I've not really taken more than a passing interest in the subject but having seen this post and in a recent discussion about throttles with my local club mates, I'm now wishing I'd paid more attention previously!

 

• So, a throttle that is active and can power the bike all the way to max speed WITHOUT pedalling, is known as a 'twist 'n'go' and is currently illegal in the UK and EU unless individual 'Type Approval' has been gained- so yes, I've got that.
  
• An exception to the above is if I understand this correctly, is that a means to activate the motor up to 6km/h without pedalling is ok, a mode often referred to as 'walk assist'
  
• Now to the bit I'm unclear on and that is the legality of having a throttle that can power the bike all the way to max speed providing you are turning the pedals - would you (or other forumite) be so kind as to provide a link to a governement or other authorititive source that clarifys this please as I for one and no doubt the OP will find this useful (and I'll be sure to book mark it too!).
  
• I have looked through EN15194 on a number of ocassions but the only reference to this subject I've found is in the pic below.
  

Many thanks

[ATTACH type=full" alt="56912]56912[/ATTACH]

It's not difficult. Throttles are not illegal. Th only relevant rule is that the power must stop when you're above 6km/hr AND you stop pedalling. As long as you're pedalling with or without effort, you can have ten throttles to regulate the power or speed.

Any idea when these consultations and the changes will be finished and decided?

 

 

 

 

 

Consultation is open unitl 25th April 2024.

One assumes if successful they would like to push it through during this parliament.

I stll thnk it's a good idea

Hi everyone.

I took my Woosh Gran Camino into a local bike shop for some minor work on the gears and they said they couldn't work on it at all due to it having a throttle and being a legal grey area. Anyone else had this? Am I going to get this everywhere?

 

Cheers

 

Crikey, that's kinda pathetic if you were just looking for a mechanical repair, name and shame them...

 

When I built my ebike from a kit (dinner plate, I'll leave it there), I took it to local guy who's shop is less than 1/2m from where I live to check over bike in case I'd messed up badly somewhere mechanically.... He made cpl faces at the hub power however was happy to work on the bike's mechanics (not any electricals), and chat, he got some sales from me too (new black front wheel/tube/tyre to match rear rear hub), new v brakes, stand and few other odds/ends).

 

For anyone in Glasgow area, If you have an ebike then take it to him saying the old guy with the dinner plate ebike sent you ;-) Shop is call Bike Love on Garscube Rd.

Now to the bit I'm unclear on and that is the legality of having a throttle that can power the bike all the way to max speed providing you are turning the pedals

 

As Saneagle has said above, there is no ruling for or against throttles, only on whether pedalling is taking place to permit power, so no clarification on throttle use during pedalling is required.

.

The mods should create a sticky withe a list of local bikes shops that are happy to deal with ebikes, would save some ppl a wasted trip and probably become quite a useful resource if it's kept up to date.

I would recommend this local bike shop, last time i dropped in he was fitting a switch kit for a client and rides with a dinner plate front wheel..

Consultation is open unitl 25th April 2024.

One assumes if successful they would like to push it through during this parliament.

 

Thanks.

My BBS01B was so badly set up, I almost sent it back demanding a refund. What really helps on hills and everywhere else, is setting "Keep current" to 100%. My throttle-less BBS01B conversion eats hills for breakfast.

 

https://edrivenet.com/bafang-programming/

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185892483146

 

Software for PC:

https://penoff.me/2016/01/13/e-bike-conversion-software/

 

Android:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkopa.speeed&hl=en&gl=US

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="56913]56913[/ATTACH]

 

That post is very useful. Thanks.

 

I am using a chromebook and have downloaded the app shown at the end of your comment. I will look into getting the usb cable you also referenced.

 

Probably a good idea to save the current settings before messing with anything, and the app appears to let you do that.

That post is very useful. Thanks.

 

I am using a chromebook and have downloaded the app shown at the end of your comment. I will look into getting the usb cable you also referenced.

 

Probably a good idea to save the current settings before messing with anything, and the app appears to let you do that.

 

The settings on my previous post gets rid of the jerkiness at the start of pedal assistance people complain about, makes U-turns easier, and there's rapid reduction of pedal assistance at 15.5mph.

 

I've got the PAS levels set like this or thereabouts, because I don't particularly want to draw more than 15A continuous current from my three year old battery, unless absolutely necessary. Set speed to 100% for every level, for the % of the current limit, which can be up to 20A. If you do plan on increasing the controller limit to 20A - best check your battery is capable first, with the battery experts.

 

If weird things happen, or things don't get written, write one parameter at a time - the worst that can happen is the bricking of your controller, necessitating the purchase of a new one.

 

 

Edited March 18, 20242 yr by guerney

That is useful too. Thanks.

 

I don't feel like I need to increase power levels, though I might experiment, but I am a wee bit concerned about the fact that as the bike came to me, if it is set on high levels of PAS (5 or 9 depending on how you set it on the display) it will motor on up to over 20 miles an hour - even on throttle alone. I know I am unlikely to get stopped as an old codger pedaling along at 15 or 16 miles an hour, but it isn't legal as it is, but could easily be made pretty much fully legal.

 

I reckon I would set the max speed in the controler NOT the display which is easily changed and therefore not legal.

 

To any observer in uniform, I ride it in a legal way always pedaling it and most always around 15 miles an hour unless going down hill.

Regarding making the throttle fully legal: Unfortunately, currently there's no way to limit the BBS01B's throttle to 6km/h, at least not on my controller. I could buy Delphi for a grand and change Penoff's source code, but I don't need a throttle. With "Keep current" at 100%, you might not need it as much either. Besides, the controller might simply ignore a 6km/h value.

Regarding making the throttle fully legal: Unfortunately, currently there's no way to limit the BBS01B's throttle to 6km/h, at least not on my controller. I could buy Delphi for a grand and change Penoff's source code, but I don't need a throttle. With "Keep current" at 100%, you might not need it as much either. Besides, the controller might simply ignore a 6km/h value.

9 levels are too many. It's bad enough having to deal with nine gears, but at least you can use both fingers and thumb to work shifters. Your fingertips must be wearing down fast. How do you manage to steer?