Best warranty

[Leccy]

Looking for an electric bike but concerned the battery won't last or keep its charge after your typical 12 month warranty.

Any recommendations for bikes or retailers with decent battery warranty.

I have a 24 mile round trip to work. I won't use the bike every day.

 

[flecc]

Most good makes have a two year battery warranty these days, but they aren't usually any longer than that. It can be a good idea to look for those with known long life, often expensive but less per year than batteries that struggle to reach two years.

For example, the lithium batteries that Panasonic supply with their crank units are commonly in use in the fourth and even fifth years in regular commuting use, easily offsetting their high replacement cost. They also have a sleep mode which makes setting aside for winter storage safer.

Hopefully others with long-life experience of other makes will add their experience, most others I've known last just two years or a little over in a few cases.

 

[Leccy]

I like the sound of the Panasonic battery. The sleep mode for winter sounds perfect! Is there a list of bikes that come with this?

 

[flecc]

No list of those that I know of. The largest maker of e-bikes with the Panasonic unit is Kalkhoff, but they fit their own Kalkhoff-BMZ battery which they claim is the equal. I don't know if they have the sleep mode, but you could check with the supplier 50cycles whose Kalkhoff advert is on the right.

However, consider everything together, not just batteries. For example, an e-bike that could do your job for £1000 and having a two year battery will cost less than a £2000 e-bike with a four year battery life, since the replacement battery won't cost anything like the £1000 difference.

So best look for the bikes that suit and then look at the battery warranties and lives to pick the best for you. Also we always recommend you try riding any bike before buying since they vary widely in suitability.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Leccy,

With regard to battery warranty length I believe that the Ansmann bikes we sell have the longest with 3 years, our eZee batteries have 2 years.

eZee have been making electric bikes since 2001 and we have been replacing batteries that are in some cases 7 years old and we have expectations that the latest ones with Sony 18650 cells will be very reliable when cared for correctly.

 

[martin@onbike]

Best Battery warranty i've seen is Ansmann 3 year.
Our best selling bike for the last 4 years in a row is BH Emotion City 700 (step through) which utilises a Panasonic system-only had a few issues over the years, and most of those were user related..ie. dropped or left discharged.
Only 2 year warranty on those though...


OOpps...crossed with John's post-Ansmann is 4 year motor, 3 year battery

 

[Cyclezee]

Best Battery warranty i've seen is Ansmann 3 year.
Our best selling bike for the last 4 years in a row is BH Emotion City 700 (step through) which utilises a Panasonic system-only had a few issues over the years, and most of those were user related..ie. dropped or left discharged.
Only 2 year warranty on those though...


OOpps...crossed with John's post-Ansmann is 4 year motor, 3 year battery

Sorry Martin,

I got the Ansmann motor and battery figures the wrong way round....now corrected

 

[Leccy]

I like the idea of battery with the sleep mode so I can put it in hibernation over winter. Do these other batteries have this or is it the Panasonic only.

 

[martin@onbike]

Only ever seen it on Panasonic batteries...the Ansmann batteries don't have it even though I THINK they use Panansonic cells in their batteries.
I don't think the copy Panasonic's have hibernation either-don't recall seeing the Raleigh (derby cycles) batteries shutting down, but i may be mistaken there-perhaps someone could clarify for us?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Probably better to ask what is the cost of replacement batteries rather than the length of warranty on the battery and also what is the likelihood of that battery shape/size being available in 3 years time. For example I had a potential customer who bought 2 e-bikes of a well known make,cost £1500 each,they are being told by the supplier that battery is no longer available so their bikes are basically scrap.
But to compensate they are being offered 2 replacement bikes at a £500 discount but with no guarantee that the batteries on those bikes will be available in 3 years.
All our classic bikes had LifePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries,our expectation that these batteries will last a long time is proving correct but this battery type is heavy. The replacement battery cost varied from £165.00 to £253.00
We are trying to standardise the battery types-the LiMnO4 battery,water bottle shape,fitted to all our performance bikes,is probably the most popular battery size/type/shape made in China. It has proven very reliable so far but if it needs replacing the cost is only £198.00 and in the unlikely event of Kudos quitting the e-bike market you can easily obtain an alternative from another source.
It's all very well putting 3 years warranty on a battery but that warranty is only any good if the supplier looks likely to be around in 3 years and that battery shape is still available.
With all the changes that the e-bike market is currently experiencing the suppliers around in 3 years time could be very different.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Looking for an electric bike but concerned the battery won't last or keep its charge after your typical 12 month warranty.

Any recommendations for bikes or retailers with decent battery warranty.

I have a 24 mile round trip to work. I won't use the bike every day.

You will need a bike with 36V 15AH battery to have the range for windy days.
If you live in a hilly area, a crank drive or a large motor (Ezee/BPM) is better than run of the mill bikes.
Be mindful that second hand commuter bikes are difficult to resell, you would probably save a lot of money buying a cheapo Chinese for the job.

 

[Jonah]

The Kalkhoff (Impulse) batteries have the same management system / sleep mode as the Panasonic (according to the manual). Of course, they have only been around for about 2 years so there is less proven history as yet.

 

[Kudoscycles]

You will need a bike with 36V 15AH battery to have the range for windy days.
If you live in a hilly area, a crank drive or a large motor (Ezee/BPM) is better than run of the mill bikes.
Be mindful that second hand commuter bikes are difficult to resell, you would probably save a lot of money buying a cheapo Chinese for the job.

One of my guys took a Kudos Arriba home,16 miles each way-32miles total-the Arriba has a 36v x 10,4 Ah battery,he had 2 bars out of 5 left on the battery capacity display,probably good for another 10 miles. I just don't see the point in carrying 15Ah batteries around,remember you are carrying that extra weight on a 5 mile trip. Unless your commute is 40 miles plus then 10 Ah good battery has enough range.
He rode the bike in a lazy way-letting the bikes power doing a lot of work and the terrain had an average number of hills.
The Arriba has the BPM motor, i think that the BPM,with its torque coming in at a low speed is very power efficient,the energy is not wasted by the motor spending much of its life at speeds below the point at which the power becomes optimum.
The crank drive is in theory the better system,after all it's possible to change the torque reaction of the motor power using the bike's gear system but it is limited by the lack of a good gear system that can cope with the power of the motor plus rider. The Bosch system overcomes this problem by turning the power down in max torque changes.
We overcame the problem on the very powerful Eiger bike by adding the Nuvinci hub but it is an expensive solution.
Whereas the hub drive with the BPM motor seems to simply offer the same performance as crank drive but without the complications or expense. The Kudos Tornado and the new Kudos Typhoon (29er)are the most powerful of any e-bike I have ridden and that includes most of the KTM and all Haibike models,they match the performance of the KTM e-race P and BH Neos ,but at a much lower cost.
I think I have abided by the rules by answering the previous post!
KudosDave

 

[trex]

you are right on most days, but consider the facts: on days like today, each mile on flat road will use 10WH at legal speed. If you have 5 mph headwind, this is equivalent to riding at 20mph, your battery consumption will double (yes, double, check ebike.ca chart) to 20WH per mile. 24 miles will eat up your 36V 15AH battery before allowing for elevation. You need 45WH on average to climb 100m. Over 24 miles, unless you ride in the fens, you'll need the 15AH battery.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Trex,thinking about this logically if your commute is the same journey then 5 mph wind against in one direction is 5 mph help in the other direction.
We offered test rides on all our bikes at the recent London cycle show,our bikes were almost constantly on the track,we changed the battery only on one Arriba in the afternoon of the third day-that bike was almost in constant test-the track was admittedly flat.
However it compared with another e-bike (I won't be drawn on the name) who put 5 batteries on their hungry bike during the same time.
Some of these bikes are very much more fuel efficient than others.
One of my customers is currently testing a Kudos Typhoon in hilly Scotland,the Typhoon is speed sensor,so it is possible to ride it in a lazy manner,he has promised to put a review on the forum shortly.
He was a customer who still gets 40 miles regularly out of his current Kudos Tourer,I think he will get more out of the Typhoon.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

the 5mph headwind is simply average for a windy day. Rains also increase consumption. You also need to keep 10% capacity in reserve to avoid shortening battery life.
I reckon for commuting, you should allow 20WH per mile to be on the safe side.
That works out at 480WH, either a 48V 10AH or 36V 15AH should be good. A bigger capacity usually requires fewer charges, also prolonging battery life.

 

[Kudoscycles]

What does eat batteries are full speed throttles-these can halve the range. But they are really out of the spirit of pedelecs. I see a lady every morning on an old lead acid Powacycle,she rarely pedals the bike,I wonder what her range is.
20 Wh per mile would be a very inefficient bike.
I avoid using above 10 ah x 36v batteries because the cost rises considerably,if you don't need any more capacity you are carrying a heavy battery around when you don't need it and replacement battery cost is very expensive. 10Ah is the most popular size of battery sold in China so the replacement cost will always be reasonable.
Tree,let's agree to disagree on this,we are both right but with different viewpoints.
KudosDave

 

[Cyclezee]

Probably better to ask what is the cost of replacement batteries rather than the length of warranty on the battery and also what is the likelihood of that battery shape/size being available in 3 years time. For example I had a potential customer who bought 2 e-bikes of a well known make,cost £1500 each,they are being told by the supplier that battery is no longer available so their bikes are basically scrap.
But to compensate they are being offered 2 replacement bikes at a £500 discount but with no guarantee that the batteries on those bikes will be available in 3 years.
All our classic bikes had LifePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries,our expectation that these batteries will last a long time is proving correct but this battery type is heavy. The replacement battery cost varied from £165.00 to £253.00
We are trying to standardise the battery types-the LiMnO4 battery,water bottle shape,fitted to all our performance bikes,is probably the most popular battery size/type/shape made in China. It has proven very reliable so far but if it needs replacing the cost is only £198.00 and in the unlikely event of Kudos quitting the e-bike market you can easily obtain an alternative from another source.
It's all very well putting 3 years warranty on a battery but that warranty is only any good if the supplier looks likely to be around in 3 years and that battery shape is still available.
With all the changes that the e-bike market is currently experiencing the suppliers around in 3 years time could be very different.
KudosDave

Speaking for eZee batteries, the chemistry and cells has changed and improved over the years, but they have retained the same VP battery case that fits every eZee bike regardless of age and they will be available for years to come.
As for Ansmann, their background is in electronics and they certainly wouldn't give a 3 year warranty if they had any doubts about their batteries.
On the topic of capacity, the higher it is the greater the longevity.

 

[RobF]

I have little faith in any bike warranty, so my advice to the OP would be to 'self-insure'.

Cheapest way to do this would be to buy a Kudos or Woosh and treat the £200 battery as a consumable - which it is.

 

[Leccy]

The Kalkhoff (Impulse) batteries have the same management system / sleep mode as the Panasonic (according to the manual). Of course, they have only been around for about 2 years so there is less proven history as yet.

Thanks. What's the warranty on these like?

Looks like my short list is Panasonic or Implulse.

I've done a search and I'm thinking of getting the Smarta GT from here http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/shop/electric-bikes-trikes/smarta-bike/smarta-gt/prod_628.html

It has a Panasonic battery (although no mention of the sleep mode).

It also comes with a 4 year warranty.

What do you think?