September 26, 20214 yr https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/electric-bike-conversion-kits/pedelec-conversion-kits/puma-rtr-umbausatz-pedelec-oder-schnelles-e-bike.html
September 26, 20214 yr Author 250w Mac motor,phaserunner controller,cycle analyst and adjusable Torque sensor.Peak power 1500w
September 26, 20214 yr Author nope,its 250 w they sell both 250w and 500w. in the RTR 250w kit,you get phaserunner controller and 1500w peak power.I should know since i have it. https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/motoren-und-montagezubehoer/motoren/puma-cst-hinterradmotor-250w.html
September 27, 20214 yr https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/electric-bike-conversion-kits/pedelec-conversion-kits/puma-rtr-umbausatz-pedelec-oder-schnelles-e-bike.html What makes these the "Best legal conversion kit by far!"? 12 'fets sounds good. Are these motors rebadged Chinese products, or have they designed their own manufactured in Germany? Is the torque higher than other 250W hub motors? What's been your experience of them? How customisable is the software? Could you use a KT controller with it? How much is it including shipping to the UK? Edited September 27, 20214 yr by guerney
September 27, 20214 yr Author What makes these the "Best legal conversion kit by far!"? 12 'fets sounds good. Are these motors rebadged Chinese products, or have they designed their own manufactured in Germany? Is the torque higher than other 250W hub motors? What's been your experience of them? How customisable is the software? Could you use a KT controller with it? How much is it including shipping to the UK? Its a Mac motor.best geared hub motor on the market,1500w peak power,phasrunner controller,cycle analyst and adjustable torque sensor.Not much more need to be said.also overheat protection.do a search on Mac motor, cycle analyst and phaserunner on endless sphere.Its normally a 1000w rated motor Edited September 27, 20214 yr by 1boris
September 27, 20214 yr The Puma/Mac motor is like a lot of other hub motors, the manufacturer is simply applying a rating to suit the markets and keep authorities happy. Opening the tech/specs of the system one link clearly states the rating as 500w and the other 250w, all other specs are exact down to the kv/rpm. Much like the Aikema 128cst, China sellers rate is as 500w but if you have a Wisper bike with one fitted it is 250w rated. The applied mark is whatever the manufacturer decides.
September 27, 20214 yr What makes these the "Best legal conversion kit by far!"? 12 'fets sounds good. Are these motors rebadged Chinese products, or have they designed their own manufactured in Germany? Is the torque higher than other 250W hub motors? What's been your experience of them? How customisable is the software? Could you use a KT controller with it? How much is it including shipping to the UK? WIth the CA and control system you have a better set up then the KT, though at far greater cost.
October 1, 20214 yr hmmm so my rated 1500w DD hub is best legal conversion kit according to you then since it can be configured to do 250 constant and high peaks like this plus even with import costs direct from grins website its cheaper than what this website sells the CA/PR for that and i get my warranty directly from grin also peak power is literally a vague point because it really depends on controller and battery capabilities like sure I have a phaserunner and my 52v battery can do 60A and peak over 3000W but really thats skimming legality even though theres no real law on peak
October 2, 20214 yr Author hmmm so my rated 1500w DD hub is best legal conversion kit according to you then since it can be configured to do 250 constant and high peaks like this plus even with import costs direct from grins website its cheaper than what this website sells the CA/PR for that and i get my warranty directly from grin also peak power is literally a vague point because it really depends on controller and battery capabilities like sure I have a phaserunner and my 52v battery can do 60A and peak over 3000W but really thats skimming legality even though theres no real law on peak you have completely misunderstood everything,NO your motor is not legal whatever you do with it.
October 2, 20214 yr you have completely misunderstood everything,NO your motor is not legal whatever you do with it. Nah I understand perfectly fine how legal it is depending on what I do with it. The literal legality law states that a motor can only do 250w continuous and 15.5mph There no limit how much peak power is allowed Bosch mid drives literally break 800w in performance mode. It's the same reason the overpriced kit you linked using the same controller and lcd as myself and a geared hub that peaks "1500w" can be said to be legal. Nothing stopping me from bursting over 2000w as long as it stops assisting past 15.5mph and drops down to 250w It's literally the same logic as your 1500w mac motor all they are doing is limiting it to 250w or just speed limiting it as the cycle analyst doesn't support lower limiting and peak power at same timr Edited October 2, 20214 yr by izy
October 2, 20214 yr Nah I understand perfectly fine how legal it is depending on what I do with it. The literal legality law states that a motor can only do 250w continuous and 15.5mph There no limit how much peak power is allowed Bosch mid drives literally break 800w in performance mode. It's the same reason the overpriced kit you linked using the same controller and lcd as myself and a geared hub that peaks "1500w" can be said to be legal. Nothing stopping me from bursting over 2000w as long as it stops assisting past 15.5mph and drops down to 250w It's literally the same logic as your 1500w mac motor all they are doing is limiting it to 250w or just speed limiting it as the cycle analyst doesn't support lower limiting and peak power at same timr Any motor "Rated" by the manufacturer at 1500W isn't legal on UK roads, unless it's registered as a motorbike. You really need to read this whole thread: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/
October 2, 20214 yr Any motor "Rated" by the manufacturer at 1500W isn't legal on UK roads, unless it's registered as a motorbike. You really need to read this whole thread: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/ You need to read the whole thread "(h) pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h " This is the key point pedelecs are only allowed a maximum continuous rating of 250w or less. It doesn't have a burst limitation which is why bosch motors in prebuilt bikes can peak upwards of 800watts Also just because a motor is rated for 1500w that ultimately is handled by the controller / display Motors literally will run at whatever you pump into them. My hub can easily maintain 15.5mph under 200watts. Also by reverse logic it's like saying a 250w motor running 2000w through a phaserunner is legal Because the motor is rated 250w I even know a guy about to get his 250wlpm on his ebike with the same 1500w hub motor limited
October 2, 20214 yr hmmm so my rated 1500w DD hub is best legal conversion kit according to you then since it can be configured to do 250 constant and high peaks like this If your motor is rated by the manufacturer at 1500W, it's illegal - what's the rating embossed or printed by the manufacturer on your motor?
October 2, 20214 yr None because its a conversion kit they not embossed with power ratings besides the rating on motors conforms to what the controller supplies. Which is exactly why the 1500w mac motor is being marked as legal as well as conversion kits because they usually come with a 250w limiter. A power rating is literally what the motor can handle without heat being the leading factor in degradation. Like I said before the motor power doesn't matter as long as it conforms to legal continuous and also speed limits. Even manufacturers like bosh don't even conform to a flat power rating https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bit-confused-about-the-bosch-drive-unit-performance-cx.24405/ Also you reiterating the fact the motor needs to be marked for rated power (which it doesnt) to be classified as legal is moot and doesn't counter my original point that by that logic running 2000w into a 250w motor is legal because its marked 250w. All it needs to do to be legal is to run at 250w continuous with a 15.5mph limit. Which funny enough with a phaserunner and cycle analyst will actually maintain that better than prebuilts as they tend to peak at 300-400w continuous, while if you set limits with the grins hardware it will full limit the amperage/wattage to not exceed that Edited October 2, 20214 yr by izy
October 2, 20214 yr None because its a conversion kit they not embossed with power ratings besides the rating on motors conforms to what the controller supplies. Which is exactly why the 1500w mac motor is being marked as legal as well as conversion kits because they usually come with a 250w limiter. Like I said before the motor power doesn't matter as long as it conforms to legal continuous and also speed limits. Even manufacturers like bosh don't even conform to a flat power rating https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bit-confused-about-the-bosch-drive-unit-performance-cx.24405/ My (kit) mid drive is embossed with 250W, so if the fuzz ever give my bike a visual check, they'll see that embossed rating, and will be able to check my max speed via the display, which is set to 15mph - you might have a longer conversation with the plod. But it's very rare to be stopped, as far as I know. Hey it's only 6 points.
October 2, 20214 yr My (kit) mid drive is embossed with 250W, so if the fuzz ever give my bike a visual check, they'll see that embossed rating, and will be able to check my max speed via the display, which is set to 15mph - you might have a longer conversation with the plod. But it's very rare to be stopped, as far as I know. Hey it's only 6 points. Sure let me just buy a "250w continuous power" sticker and show them my display limiting my speed to 15.5mph (not including the slight overhead you are allowed before motor realises it needs to cutoff) Because the cycle analyst is very versatile and has an array of settings to dial in and I can just show its draw. Either way yeah it's very rare to get pulled its only those if ride stupidly and tend be reported that get pulled usually
October 2, 20214 yr Sure let me just buy a "250w continuous power" sticker and show them my display limiting my speed to 15.5mph (not including the slight overhead you are allowed before motor realises it needs to cutoff) Because the cycle analyst is very versatile and has an array of settings to dial in and I can just show its draw. Either way yeah it's very rare to get pulled its only those if ride stupidly and tend be reported that get pulled usually The plod disregard stickers - if you ever do get stopped, upload a video of your interaction with them here, that's what I'll be doing.
October 2, 20214 yr any bike that you can change any settings is not road legal and why i have to buy a dongle at rip of prices. a uk motor must be 250w and cut off at 15mph but can use more than 250w if under the speed limit and say climbing a hill when it will use way more than 250w and with my bosch bike has a 20Acontroller and have 7-800w to push my ass up a hill. at the end of the day plod dont give a shit as most want one them self and no shite 15mph speed limit just dont kill anyone going 120mph down a canal path
October 3, 20214 yr The UK law is vague...max 250w and a 15.5mph limit (25kmh call it speed A). But to get up a steep hill that same motor will be pulling far more watts, maybe 3, 4 or 5 X the rated power...example to get up a 10% hill the motors maybe pulling 500w+ at speed A...but only 175w on level ground at speed A......at what point is the motor illegal? The law doesn't and cannot define this...plus power IN is not the same as power OUT.....like having your foot down in a low powered car on a hill, you foots down to the floor, the fuel going in is high.....but your speed aint changing. And there is no laws as far as I know about changing the parameters of the motor as long as its rated at 250W from the manufacturer.
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