BBS01ET vs DWG22C for cargo bike

[chris667]

Hello

I am still not sure what to go for. Been down a proper rabbit hole.

The MTB i had planned to convert is much loved and I've had it for decades but I want to carry shopping. I have decided (for better or worse) to convert an old Pashley Mailstar rather than the MTB I had in mind.A big, heavy bike which I love but never use because it's almost impossible to carry up the steps to my house.

I think the design of the rear triangle would make a disc problematic, but I would be able to braze cantilever studs to the frame and fit Magura rim brakes. Maguras are "Old technology" but they work exceptionally well and I wouldn't hesitate to use one for this application. Plus for some unknown reason it has a mech hanger (as well as a fitting for a chain tensioner!). With repainting the frame it would cost about the same to have either.

Total weight of me, bike and the most luggage I would want to carry is about 160KG. There is one 16:9 hill to my house and a steep path (I would definitely depend on the walk mode!). It's the Peaks, but most of the routes I'd want to take are less than ten miles and more undulating than anything else. I happily ride this bike on the one or two occasions I've been brave enough to take it down the steps, the front brake in particular is excellent on that smaller wheel. Perfectly adequate for the speed I'll be travelling at.

So, I have two options from Woosh - I like the advice they've given me and want to put my money into a British firm:

BBS01ET 48V

Pros:

• Possibly not working as hard as the hub motor (actually this may not be the case depending on what gearing the Sturmey hub has).
• No need to braze fittings to the frame, therefore saving the cost of a paint job.

Cons:

• In the (many!) videos I've watched, the BBS01 is a bit noisier.
• Uglier installation. BB is quite low on these - will it be too close to the ground?

DWG22C

Pros:

• (Arguably) neater - I like the idea of everything being in the back wheel (in both cases, the battery will go in the front rack because having a bit of weight there makes the bike handle much better.
• I would probably rather have Magura brakes than the Sturmey X-RD3.
• Fewer headaches with chainline.
• Wider spread of gears with smaller gaps - at very steep inclines would I struggle with the X-RD3's lowest gear? I'm not worried about killing the internals of the hub as they are easy to fix.
• Cheaper to replace rear wheel than hub motor after failure.

Cons:

• Brazing fittings to frame means a paint job. Also possibly fabricating new brake and chainstay bridges to accomodate 135mm spacing on the rear triangle.
• Derailleurs are so ugly!

What do you think?

 

[guerney]

Hills, three gears and a mighty heavy bike? I fear even an ETM may struggle, and alhough I've never tried a hub motored bike, I can't see how legal one would cope.

 

[chris667]

I fear even an ETM may struggle

Hmm. I am not so sure.

It's all a question of gearing, surely?

I don't want this bike to go fast at all.

 

[guerney]

Hmm. I am not so sure.

It's all a question of gearing, surely?

I don't want this bike to go fast at all.

More optimal gearing for hills will certainly work better - I've towed heavier total loads up steep hills with my folding bike 80nm 36V bbs01b conversion 52T>11T, which isn't the best gearing for steep hills.

 

[matthewslack]

Hmm. I am not so sure.

It's all a question of gearing, surely?

I don't want this bike to go fast at all.

It would be really interesting and useful if you did combine bbs01 and sturmey archer 3 speed hub, and share the outcome! I'll be listening...

 

[guerney]

Is the 48V BBS01ETM controller's amp limit changeable in firmware? @peter.c reported his 48V BBS02 controller's isn't. At present, my 36V controller is set at 15A, but can be increased to 20A.

 

[Woosh]

Is the 48V BBS01ETM controller's amp limit changeable in firmware?

As far as I know, they don't lock the controller but you would void the guarantee if you reprogram it.
I ordered 14A 48V controllers for them from Bafang to suit my 48V 10AH bag batteries.
The 36V BBS01 has 36V 15A controller to suit my 36V 15AH bag batteries.

 

[guerney]

As far as I know, they don't lock the controller but you would void the guarantee if you reprogram it.

How can you tell if a controller has been reprogrammed, if the user has reverted the settings back to their original values before sending the bike back?

 

[Woosh]

How can you tell if a controller has been reprogrammed, if the user has reverted the settings back to their original values before sending the bike back?

I have not done any forensic checks until now so I don't know the answer.

 

[peter.c]

The firmware has max amps on the first page, mine is set to 12amps and will not budge upwards but will go down . [At the time it is what i wanted a legal no fuss German version?] so its in the firmware version and no 52 v option but marked/etched 250watt , but if you buy enough you can spec what you want
The other options are 500w 48v 18 amps and 750watt 24 amps both these will run 52v battery too
The difference is noticeable max on the 500c meter is 500 odd watts peak against special sauce 750watt 52v 1100+ peak

 

[guerney]

The firmware has max amps on the first page, mine is set to 12amps and will not budge upwards but will go down . [At the time it is what i wanted a legal no fuss German version?] so its in the firmware version and no 52 v option but marked/etched 250watt , but if you buy enough you can spec what you want
The other options are 500w 48v 18 amps and 750watt 24 amps both these will run 52v battery too
The difference is noticeable max on the 500c meter is 500 odd watts peak against special sauce 750watt 52v 1100+ peak

The following almost certainly will make no difference, but do you the left "Write" button or the "Write Flash" button to the right? I never use the button on the right.



The very first time I tried to set the "Current limit" of my BBS01B to 20A, the firmware threw some kind of wobbly and all of the settings on that page acquired odd values, and I was worried nothing could be changed from that point onwards, because nothing seemed to. But after a few cycles of putting in different values and hitting the left "Write" button, the firmware accepted 20A as the current limit and the other values. I have less faith in the controller and my battery's BMS, than I have in my battery's cells, so I've set it at 15A for now, but it's nice to know I have the 20A option.

Like I said, left or right button write, will likely make zero difference to the intended result.

 

[peter.c]

The max current is shown in controller info below the firmware version looking for my actual screen grab now
cannot find it to cold in the workshop to check
PS tried bafang and penoffs software even speeed app no joy on this motor can adjust anything but max amps will not budge
The problem is ingrained in my this bike has previously had 1100 watt peak motor in it

 

[guerney]

The max current is shown below the firmware version looking for my actual screen grab now

I wonder if it's a firmware limitation responding to a physical one detected in the hardware/electronics, or a limit set exclusively by firmware? If just set exclusively by firmware, I'm surprised some method hasn't become available to hack it, because everything else has.

 

[guerney]

The problem is ingrained in my this bike has previously had 1100 watt peak motor in it

It's difficult getting used to less power and speed - before I knew what was legal and what wasn't, I was having sooo much more fun!

 

[peter.c]

All would be ok if it never left the farm - countryside, but as a shopper it attracted attention
The bits are on the way for another odd ball fat tyre cargo trike scratch /scrap build
[The local suron and dinner plate rear hubs have woken the sleeping giant ]

 

[chris667]

I had another conversation with a friend who used to ride cycle rickshaws. Apparently the best ones use these:

Sturmey-Archer | CS-RK3 Silver

For more than 100 years, Sturmey-Archer has been a pioneer in the design of internal gear hubs, hub brakes and dynamo lighting. Sturmey-Archer makes cycling easier and safer.

www.sturmey-archer.com

It's a 3 speed hub with a splined cassette fitting on one end.

Range would not be an issue!

 

[chris667]

DWG22C purchased in the end.

My car is about to be sold and my old eBike is gone - I need to get on the road now and the BBS01 isn't going to work with the frame that's ready without modifications.

Watch this space!

 

[guerney]

All would be ok if it never left the farm - countryside, but as a shopper it attracted attention
The bits are on the way for another odd ball fat tyre cargo trike scratch /scrap build
[The local suron and dinner plate rear hubs have woken the sleeping giant ]

I am intrigued! I havn't been here long enough for the initial unveiling of one of your builds, and very much look forward to it. I do hope you will go into detail with photos. Is there a thread containing all of your builds somewhere?

 

[peter.c]

Will start a thread soon picked the rat fink up last night parts are on way but lost by evri and stuck post

 

[guerney]

Will start a thread soon picked the rat fink up last night parts are on way but lost by evri and stuck postView attachment 49815

I think that's more of a head turner than a Sur-ron. Looks like there's plenty of room in the frame for shelves or something, for baguettes, milk cartons, ketchup and suchlike? I'm expect you have other ideas for adding cargo carrying capability.