bbs01, cyclone or none at all?

[handbaked]

Hi all

I have been reading exhaustively about the different electric bike kits on the market. I am a keen DIY kind of person so am looking at the potential of converting an efficient, high quality hybrid road bike or hardtail to an electric vehicle.

I ride around 12-15 miles a day round trip on my commute and currently use a custom hybrid bike with 3 speed nexus internal gear system. As much as I manage to get from a to b in not too much of a sweaty mess I do like the idea of adding some extra fun to the journey as well as help my legs out! I often finish work at a busy bar at 2am or later and the 6 mile trip home really does take it out of me sometimes.

I have predominantly been looking at the BBS01 and the Cyclone 250w kits as I believe mid drive is the way to go due to the fact I have some pretty steep and/or long hills on my route (Sydenham Hill anyone?). My initial concern is that I am just looking at it as a toy and in practice is not going to give me any advantage. The motor is going to add around 3.5kg and some bottle mount or under the seat 8-15ah batteries I have been looking at seem to be the same again. So my first question is is if I add 7kg to my bike is it going to get up the hills ok or is it in fact going to cause my legs more stress?

I am looking at achieving a steady pace of as near to 20mph as possible and don't mind pedalling (though it would be nice to sometimes do very little other than push the throttle!). I only weight around 10.5st and the bike will be pretty lightweight and very efficient also. I need to achieve at least 20 miles from the battery I choose so would an 8-15ah suffice?

What would you guys recommend between the BBS01 and the cyclone? The BBS01 seems far more all encompassing with PAS and LCD controller but the cyclone is lower voltage so the battery pack will be less meaty I presume.

That's it for now, otherwise my first post will be an essay.

Cheers! Tom

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Lower voltage is no advantage at all. Lower voltage means higher current for the same power, so you need more amp-hours in the battery for the same difference. At only 10.5st, even a crappy hub-motor will get you up a hill OK, so you don't need to limit your choice in any way.

When you add a 7kg electric kit to your bike, of course you'll go up the hills OK, because you'll have a motor!!!

 

[handbaked]

ah right ok, I get you re: batteries.

Have you had any experience with the BBS01 or the Cyclone? any recommendations on either of them or battery selection?

I guess my thing is that I have never actually had experience of using an electric bike so am trying to convince myself that it is not just a toy but is actually going to make my life easier and the need to get in the wifes car even less regular than already ;-)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I've tried the BBS01, but not a Cyclone; however, the Cyclone is the same sort of thing as the GNG. I think Cyclones have their strengths for recumbents and trikes, but I can't see one getting anywhere near a BBS01.

Although I have nothing against crank-drives, as I have two myself, I prefer hub-motors, which are just so much easier to ride with. The one I have now is pretty small, and now that my weight has gone down a bit to 90kg, it can get me up most hills. It's very hilly round here too. It's actually a 2-speed motor, which can change to a lower gear for hill-climbing, but the only time it changes down now is when I'm lazy or very tired. You're only 3/4 of my weight, so you won't have any trouble on hills.. I wouldn't listen to those that'll tell you a crank drive is more efficient either. I've never see any evidence that it is, but I've seen some to the contrary.

 

[trex]

three things that make me prefer a crank drive: first thing is speed when you ride derestricted. If you have the bigger power, 350W or 500W, you can go as fast as you can pedal, the motor keeps giving, no limitation there, you may run the 250W to its limit, I sincerely doubt you'd run the 350W out of steam. The way CDs power the bike is also more natural, just a gentle but persuasive push that encourages you to pedal harder. When I ride a BPM, I feel like wanting to treat the bike like a motorbike, not a pedelec. Second thing is motor noise. CDs don't get noisier at high speed or low speed, just the same, much quieter than the BPMs. Third thing is technical. CDs are ussually inrunners, better at heat dissipation than the hub motors. If you are in the market for a CD kit this summer, there will be a new entrant from Woosh. The new model is easier to open than both the BBS01 and the TCM.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, but you forgot to mention all the gear changing and crunching. It all gets very tedious when you're cold during a winter commute. Hub-motor s don't care what gear you're in.

 

[handbaked]

Thanks for the input so far.

Ultimately when money allows I would be looking at using a crank drive with a nexus 8 or Alfine 11 speed hub gear system. The way I understand it is using a crank drive system allows me to use all my gears so it should be able to get me around more efficiently. Though d8veh what hub system do you have? And is it rear or front wheel mounted?

 

[trex]

I blip the brake leavers before changing gear but if that bothers you, either a torque sensor or a gear sensor like this one will sort that out:
http://gearsensor.com/

 

[handbaked]

That looks like a fancy little gadget. How much does that thing cost?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

As I said before, there's nothing to show that crank drives are more efficient. I have a Xiongda rear hub-motor, which comes as a kit without battery and rim, but with a nice sine-wave controller and LCD. It's totally silent, much quieter than a BBS01, except when it changes down to low gear for climbs above 20% steepness. The Xiongda is a bit wider than most, so not ideal as a first kit unless you're good at DIY.

Rear hub-motors are better than front ones. They're a bit safer and a lot quieter.

If you want to choose between hub and crank motor, you really need to try them.

 

[handbaked]

This is partly the problem. Actually trying these different set ups out. I need to though before investing a few hundred quid in a kit. Do you have a link to that hub motor?

 

[D8ve]

Personally I have had one cheap hub drive and two good crank drive systems. My wife has a good hub drive.
It's not just the drive that counts but as a cyclist having torque sensor makes the whole system feel like bionic legs.
My cd,s had three power levels 20 years younger, 20 years old and still taking the pills lance...
De restricting eats power and reduces range but the CD systems I had lasted well but mostly used on 20 years younger setting though.
Ignore the 250,350 watt labels it's usualy the controller and battery combo that limits power not the motor. D8veh can advise on tweaking the controllers for power and speed.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

This is partly the problem. Actually trying these different set ups out. I need to though before investing a few hundred quid in a kit. Do you have a link to that hub motor?

https://www.electricbike.com/2-speed-e-matic-xiongda/
http://www.xiongdamotor.com.cn/custom_page_1/New_Double_speed_Motor.html

 

[handbaked]

I have read all 7 pages of your post about this motor and it does seem very good. Almost like you have put a spanner in the works regarding my decision making! Im probably being stupid and/or blind but I can't find anywhere to buy it. Can you point me in the right direction please?

 

[Nealh]

Both mid drive and hub have pro's and cons, I have BBS 350 and Oxydrive/Bafang 250 CST.
BBS quite in operation, 9 assist levels to suit your fitness and for added speed. Gear changing fairly constant if you have start stop route, where I live gears 6-9 are the only ones I really use. Need to change down before you stop and pull away. With my asthma and fitness can pedal up to 27mph.
Bafang/Oxydrive quite noisy in operation 6 assist levels easier to pedal and achieve speed for a less fit rider. Ride is far more relaxed no real need to change gear very often, pas kicks in after 1/4 crank turn. In 26" wheel I can pedal to 24mph max but find general cruising speed easier to maintain in a more relaxed style.
All in all I prefer the CST for its more relaxing ride however the BBS gives me a better workout.

 

[Nealh]

You have to go to Xiongda motor directly to buy the kit or through the Alibaba link. Certainly in my books as maybe one next to buy although I do like the look of the BMS Battery 20A sine wave kit with LCD3 etc for the 09 battery I have but not usable with the 2 speed XD motor.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's right, you have to email Yona with what you want. She'll then send you an invoice, which you pay through Paypal. I'm presently running the 36v at 48v because I had to do a repair on my 48v one after I fell off and cut the wire. The 36v one then goes a lot faster like that - about 14mph in low gear and 24mph in high, but it's not so efficient like that and a bit less torque. The 48v one is the one to go for.

 

[handbaked]

Ah good ol alibaba. I saw that and assumed that may be the only way at the moment. Is it best to use that or aliexpress for importing a suitable battery too? I was also putting together an idea of using hobbyking batteries diy style.....next thing to read into. Over the weeks of reading online about ebikes the cost is dropping though I think I may well get the bug once I have my first kit!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I got my 48v Panasonic battery from BMSB for about £250. I also got a Sony one from Aliexpress for comparison, but it doesn't seem as good. It seems to have a bit less capacity and goes down very quickly at the end. Eclipse in the UK do one too. These batteries give a very tidy installation.

 

[handbaked]

I presume the lifepo4? They seem to only do the big bricks so have you just got yours on a luggage rack? I wanted to ideally have bottle type battery to try and distribute the extra weight on the bike. Do you have any advice on this?