Battery life (again)

[imellor]

Ezee Battery life (again)

Apologies for brining up an old subject for discussion. But I have been a proud Ezee Torq owner for about two years. I love the bike and think it is fantastic, but the batteries are driving me mad.
I originally had a Lithium Polymer battery but that died within the year. So I scoured the planet and found a NIMH battery at NYCE in New York and paid a fortune to ship to the UK. Like many others I have found the NIMH much better for my riding style. However after a year this battery is starting to fail, albeit not as spectacularly as the Lithium Polymer. This is also after giving the battery a monthly "conditioning" discharge.
The longest journey I do is to my parents and back which is about 10 miles, which a new battery does with ease, but now I find that after about 8 ½ miles it gives up (this is in un-restricted mode).
I admit that I treat the batteries hard, although I do pedal, I don’t put too much effort in.
But as someone else mentioned in this forum, if I have to keep replacing batteries every year, I might as well buy a normal bike.
We are currently a two car family, so if we downsize to one car, I can at least be re-assured that buying a battery every year is cheaper than running a ca r!!!!!

Discuss……..

Ian

 

[flecc]

The original was a Lithium-ion one Ian, but they have just introduced a Lithium Polymer, but it's £410 with P & P.

I don't know when you got your NiMh battery, the original 2006 9 Ah ones were fine, but late 2007 the cells became impossible to source at affordable prices for manufacture, the only viable ones used then being the 8.5 Ah ones seen in many bikes, like the original Powacycle Salisbury/Windsor. The discharge rates of those cells are not really up to adequately supplying the powerful Torq 1 motor, so the life can suffer with hard use.

The internal construction with six columns of five cells and limited space make these very difficult to re-cell, and packs can't be bought with that formation.

Other than splashing out on a new battery, one thing I can suggest is one of the LiFePO4 packs that some members have recently bought, mounting it on the carrier instead.

Alternatively you could buy a cheaper 36 volt battery like the £150 Synergie Mistral lithium one and parallel it with your present battery using Schottky diodes for isolation, and that would give you plenty of range and current for power. You'd need to experiment to see if the eZee's HP charger suited the Synergie battery, but it's pretty well a generic with many manufacturers now, Wisper now using them as well as eZee.
.

 

[imellor]

The original was a Lithium-ion one Ian, but they have just introduced a Lithium Polymer, but it's £410 with P & P.
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As ever flecc, thank you for a very prompt reply. I hadn't realised that there was a change from Lithium-ion to Lithium-Polymer. I don't mind investing in a new Lithium-Polymer battery, if it is an investment that is going to last, even 18 months to 2 years would be good. However I am guessing that they haven't been on the market long enough to be proven yet?
I think you are right about my NIMH battery, I had such difficulty sourcing a NIMH, I assume it is probably a 8.5Ah one.

Ian

 

[flecc]

I've spent all this year testing a new 4.4 kilo Phylion Lithium Ion one for eZee and it's been superb, and still is at over 250 charges. In parallel, others have been testing a new 3.3 kilo lithium polymer one from another manufacturer, and they've also had excellent results. With that choice open, eZee have opted for the lighter one and that's what's for sale now at Cyclepoint. here's the link to my testing thread:

New eZee battery
.

 

[imellor]

I've spent all this year testing a new 4.4 kilo Phylion Lithium Ion one for eZee and it's been superb, and still is at over 250 charges. In parallel, others have been testing a new 3.3 kilo lithium polymer one from another manufacturer, and they've also had excellent results. With that choice open, eZee have opted for the lighter one and that's what's for sale now at Cyclepoint. here's the link to my testing thread:

New eZee battery
.

Flecc, is the original Li-ion battery charger suitable for charging the Lithium-Polymer battery, or do I need a new (third) battery charger?

Ian

 

[flecc]

It's fine for it Ian, you don't need a new one. eZee do have an experimental BMS on test which would mean a new high speed charger, but that's for the future and only then if successful.
.

 

[imellor]

It's fine for it Ian, you don't need a new one. eZee do have an experimental BMS on test which would mean a new high speed charger, but that's for the future and only then if successful.
.

I assume BMS = Battery Management System.
In my experience fast charging of batteries never seems to work very well!!!

As for the Lithium-Polymer, I'll live with the NIMH for a couple more months and will probably invest in a LI-Polymer. I don't think the recent hot tempertures have helped with the charging of my NIMH, so I'll see how it responds in the cooler weather.

Ian

 

[flecc]

Yes, Battery Management System. I agree on fast charging, though I think it's mostly unsuccessful due to poor charger systems, and BMS where used.
.

 

[mikescave]

EZEE Liv Battery Life

Hi,

I think I've been conned by 50 cycles! My Ezee liv is superb but the battery is crap! ( Bought JUN 07)

What should I buy as a replacement for my Phylion XH370-105 37v ?

50 Cycles, from whom I purchased my bike , no longer sell Ezee, so I think I've been duped.

I need a replacement battery but according to the new Ezee agents "Cyclepoint" that seems to be £400ish.

It seems to me that I would have been better advised to buy a Powabyke, a company who has agents: and locally to me, and who have a sustainable/realistic battery replacement scheme.

From a very unhappy 50 Cycles customer - I await your comments.

Regards
Mike

 

[MR E]

Hi Ian

As you probably know , i purchased an EZee Torq Trekking in Jan this year with Li_ion battery , and it seems to have died-- Led diagnostics indicate flat battery- ( 6 flashes) although checking out the voltage on the pins is 40.4 volts and when the charger is connected indicates 40.7 volts at end of charge.

The battery type is Li-ion type Xh370-10j

I do remember that there is a 6 month warranty with these batteries-- funny just seems to have died afterthe warranty expires!!

Looks like a new battery is required here , and wondered who is the supplier of these now in the UK -- is it Cylepoint or still 50 cycles.?

Wondered if anyone else has had early battery failure so soon after the expiry of warranty and how flexible are the suppliers of replacing these.
Live in hope ---anyway.

 

[flecc]

Hi David. It's likely your battery was made some while before you bought the bike, but I won't know unless you let me have the full serial number from the label, the one beginning with a J.

Early batteries from 2006 and well into 2007 were troublesome, not tied to a warranty period but depending on usage. Some ran for a year or so, one of mine gave up in only three months, another at nine months.

The chances of a free replacement are very slim now, but let me have that serial number, 6 alpha characters and a long number.

The sole suppliers are now Cyclepoint. I believe 50cycles may have a few spares, but no eZee batteries or chargers now.
.

 

[MR E]

Hi Flecc

Thanks for your quick response.

The batt s/n is JGAAJG100019-- looks like an 2007 model.

Do you have cyclepoints contact number or website , as I will contact asap , as after a few months of enjoying my Torq , I will have to resort to to my old ordinary pedal cycle!!

I assume any new battery will come with a new charger.
Regards

 

[flecc]

Yes, it as made 7th November 2007 David.

You can contact Cyclepoint by a typed message on this link:

CONTACT

or telephone on this number: 01273 710784

A new battery still uses your existing charger, batteries not coming with them.

If you have no luck with a concession of some sort on your present battery, please send me a PM and I'll advise further.
.

 

[MR E]

Thanks Flecc

I will contact cyclepoint on Tuesday and will advise the outcome.

 

[Badge]

Battery life(again)

In the Screwfix cat 92 there's a Makita ad
on page 1068.
Their Li ion looks impressive. 2000 cycles and
counting with 430 % run time indexed at 100%
Ni CD.
Dear though, £130 3ah. 18 v.

 

[flecc]

In the Screwfix cat 92 there's a Makita ad
on page 1068.
Their Li ion looks impressive. 2000 cycles and
counting with 430 % run time indexed at 100%
Ni CD.
Dear though, £130 3ah. 18 v.

Adjusted pro-rata thats £867 for a typical e-bike 36 volt 10 Ah battery, ouch!

In fact there are those sort of claims in the e-bike world, but sadly once in customers hands they turn out not to be true. That number of charges is possible with the as yet not perfected Lithium Iron (LiFePO4) batteries, but with current lithium ion manganese or cobalt, not yet and probably never.

Most don't even reach the accepted theoretical norm of 400 to 500 charges.
.

 

[mikescave]

Battery life after death

I am pleased to report a happy ending to the issue of my Ezee Liv, fitted
with one of the faulty batch of Phylion Batteries mentioned and complained about ad nauseum above.



Despite the period of use for my original battery (ie out of guarantee) but still only 14 months: I can only say that "Cyclepoint" , although not agents at the time, have been excellent and most sympathetic in supplying a discounted replacement on terms that recognise the original problem. This is not only refreshing but has restored my faith in Ezee. Thank you Cyclepoint!

 

[wotwozere]

warranty time

Mike

How long is the warranty on the new batteries, when I called last week about the Quando, the lady said it was 6 months but 12 month if below 70% capacity which I do not quite understand what that means.

6 months seems really expensive for £410 inc delivery, that works out to be £70 a month which is only just less than what I spend on fuel a month if it only lasted in that time.

The liv on the website shows it is Nimh can you swap the batteries over to lithium or do you need to upgrade the bike?

thx

Bob

 

[flecc]

Batteries are consumables and six months isn't an unusual warranty period on consumables. However, it's good to hear that Cyclepoint have been helpful in making an allowance on a replacement battery.

Lithium batteries are reckoned to be able to lose as much as 30% of capacity in a year under some circumstances, so that much would be considered within the normal range. That's where the 70% comes in, since a battery losing over 30% in one year would be considered abnormal so they extend the warranty on that aspect only in those circumstances.

The Liv, like all eZee models, runs ok on either NiMh or Lithium-ion batteries. Of course the correct charger must be used on each type.
.

 

[HarryB]

Ezee really need to get their act together with the battery guarantee - it needs to be at least a year at 80%, preferably 2 years as per Kalkhoff. Personally I would never pay £410 for a Li-ion battery with a six months guarantee, even knowing that it is made with Sanyo cells.

With all the problems that Ezee has had with batteries and the damage that it has done to their business you would think they would give their customers the security of a decent guarantee to re-gain their trust.