Battery charger info and thanks to Zebb

[keith99]

First I would like to thank Zebb for showing me his bike and letting me have a ride on it, very comfortable kudos and a really nice chap, I like the mods he has done to make the bike so comfy.

Ok for my bike I am going for these batterys.
Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C hardcase pack (UK Warehouse)

Now if I make up 2 packs of 5amp, using one at a time, would I lose out on distance of making one 6 cell pack, it would fit better using one pack at a time and keeping one pack in panniers. so say the 6 batterys (10amp)would do 30 miles....would I get 15 out 3 batterys (5amp). I am not sure if it would be quite as simple as it seems.!

I would need a charger, is there a difference between charging lith iron and lith poly.
As this charger says lith iron.! not poly.
Alloy Shell 180W LiFePo4/Li-Ion/Lead Acid Battery EBike Charger - BMSBATTERY

Last question is there a way of balancing them all together or do I have to buy a balancer for each battery. or could i just balance one battery each time i charge the pack.?

I would prefer to buy uk if poss, so if you know better product for same costs please help me with links.

Thank you for any help.

 

[rpurchon]

i would go with the hobby king 8000mah ones.mine are lasting great and dont need balancing.
unlike the 5000 mah i have.
and they arent much bigger size wise .2x 6 cell 8000mah =22miles at 18mph.
also remember you cant use all of the batterys mah rating or they wont last long.
dont go below 3.7v per cell.
this is a great charger,for charging /balancing up to 6 cells.i have 2.
they will do everything including measure resistance in the battery.
iCharger 106B-plus 250W 6s Balance/Charger - Lipo charger - Lipo charger - Lipo charger - Giant Shark
and these are the best voltage monitors,
6S Cellmeter - RC Electronic Accessories - RC Electronic Accessories - RC Electronic Accessories - Giant Shark
forget the other cheapo type they are crap,you need to buy 10 to get 4 the same.
richard

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I prefer the hardshell packs because they're safer and easier to hanle. The 8aH 6Sones are easier to wire up and charge if they give you suffucient range.

If you go with the 4S hard packs, you should wire them together in parallel pairs with a single power and balance connector so that you have three 4S 10aH packs. That'll give you longer range because you always have to leave a bit in reserve, and it'll give you more power because it'll stay at a higher voltage for short and medium journeys, plus it'll be easier on the batteries because each one doesn't have to give such a high current.

Your question about charging makes be very nervous about recommending that you proceed with this idea. Have you done your homework on them.? They can be very dangerous if you mistreat them.

You should check and control the balance at every charge cycle. Anything can happen to upset the balance.

I use this charger that charges and balances the cells individually. It's very useful for restoring normal ebike batteries.
BC168 RC Model Super Speed Li-ion Li-Polymer Li-Fe Hobby Balance Charger BC016 | eBay

 

[Zebb]

Your welcome. Nice to meet you. Dont go charging those batterys without balancing them. Do as Dave says and do some research. Good luck.

 

[jerrysimon]

Agreed Lipos really do require respect. On the balance charger you need to make sure you select the correct battery type/voltage and the number of cells to balance.

As advised you should read up about them in terms of not over charging/discharging as the results can be quite dramatic!

I cut my teeth on lipos using them in RC models. As a rule I would never advise the usage for ebikes unless you really know what you are doing and would also suggest you charge and store them outside the house. Even though I feel competent in their use, I myself don't use them on my ebikes as I use it to work each day and would not be happy leaving or charging them in the office.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Zebb]

Thinking more on this I would go get a bottle battery as I mentioned when showing you the bike,its a lot to go wrong if your not sure, your not going to save that much money in the end and they will fit better on your bike.

Or better still go buy a 10.4amp samsung bottle battery, try it once, say you dont like it and give it to me as a present.!! ...

 

[jerrysimon]

Again that depends on the motor he has. Some of the cheaper batteries have a limited max current draw which will not cope and or voltage will sag with a larger motor.

I think Kudos sell a decent battery for around £200 or did (prices may have gone up). As you say much simpler and can be safely charged with the associated bulk charger.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Zebb]

He has a 8fun 250watt.

 

[keith99]

wow so much help, thanks. ok I will take a second look at batterys and make sure I know what is what. if not sure will take zebbs advice and get bottle.

I take note of how volatile these batterys can be.

zebb may ask you to help a bit on installation if Thats ok. can supply coffee, but not sure on free bottle battery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If I can show you the downside of lipos:

The first one I tried to solder the connector on, my soldering iron touched and shorted the wires. There was a massive flash, and then the 22v went down to zero. One of the internal tabs had vapourised.

I've bricked two sets at a cost of £300 by leaving my bike switched on accidentally.

I wiped out another pack when my pannier frame wore through the pannier and continued rubbing through the lipos covering in one journey. I was lucky they didn't catch fire.

The biggest flash I got was when I was connecting a series harness, and after I'd plugged in the first connector, I'd forgotten that the next one became live with 64v. The bare prongs touched something metal, and I was left with a Deans connector with no prongs and a 12" diameter black covering of copper oxide on my tee-shirt.

You only have to get one wire round the wrong way, which I manage no matter how much I check, and you get the same instant vapourisation of metal, except it's normally accompanied by Kentucky fried fingers because it gets you when you attempt to connect.

After all that, you have the complication of the charging procedures, and it's only a natter of time before you forget to unplug the series connectors when you plug them into your parallel boad. Guess what? Another big flash and a vapourised connector. Everybody I know with ebike lipos has done that.

Having said all that, if you're aware of the risks, 12s lipos is the easiest way to get a 20% power and speed increase on a 36v bike. They're also a good solution if you want a lightweight low range pack that can still give high current.They don't work out any cheaper. You have to buy a charger, power supply, connectors, wires/harness etc., monitoring system and ideally a parallel charging board.

 

[jackhandy]

.

Or better still go buy a 10.4amp samsung bottle battery, try it once, say you dont like it and give it to me as a present.!! ...[

Are the 10.4a samsungs actually available in the uk now?

Last I heard there were none for sale anywhere in this country.

 

[Zebb]

.

Or better still go buy a 10.4amp samsung bottle battery, try it once, say you dont like it and give it to me as a present.!! ...[

Are the 10.4a samsungs actually available in the uk now?

Last I heard there were none for sale anywhere in this country.

Kudos have them on the new range of bikes, I could not say if they would just sell to other persons who don't have their bikes or not. I don't see why it would harm to ask, but they may have only a limited number available. I would hope as a previous customer wanted to upgrade the battery system in the future they would be kind enough to sell me a pack, but understand if not.

But I agree they are not that available.

 

[e-bike]

If I can show you the downside of lipos:

The first one I tried to solder the connector on, my soldering iron touched and shorted the wires. There was a massive flash, and then the 22v went down to zero. One of the internal tabs had vapourised.

I've bricked two sets at a cost of £300 by leaving my bike switched on accidentally.

I wiped out another pack when my pannier frame wore through the pannier and continued rubbing through the lipos covering in one journey. I was lucky they didn't catch fire.

The biggest flash I got was when I was connecting a series harness, and after I'd plugged in the first connector, I'd forgotten that the next one became live with 64v. The bare prongs touched something metal, and I was left with a Deans connector with no prongs and a 12" diameter black covering of copper oxide on my tee-shirt.

You only have to get one wire round the wrong way, which I manage no matter how much I check, and you get the same instant vapourisation of metal, except it's normally accompanied by Kentucky fried fingers because it gets you when you attempt to connect.

After all that, you have the complication of the charging procedures, and it's only a natter of time before you forget to unplug the series connectors when you plug them into your parallel boad. Guess what? Another big flash and a vapourised connector. Everybody I know with ebike lipos has done that.

Having said all that, if you're aware of the risks, 12s lipos is the easiest way to get a 20% power and speed increase on a 36v bike. They're also a good solution if you want a lightweight low range pack that can still give high current.They don't work out any cheaper. You have to buy a charger, power supply, connectors, wires/harness etc., monitoring system and ideally a parallel charging board.

Frightening! its easy to get it wrong. My first lipo’s arrive tomorrow 3x 5cell 18.5v each will be connecting in series for 55.5v.

I will be marking them say A to A, B to B as extra percussion.