- I'm getting close to my first battery build and thanks for the information on here about the various options and suppliers
- Fogstar get the thumbs up from a good few folks but I'm wondering about the Dutch company Nkon as a source
- They have two web outlets - one where you pay VAT if you're in the EU (which we're not) and a second (ru.nkon.nl) where prices are VAT free
- So regarding VAT - if you pay VAT at purchase, do you still have to pay VAT again to HMRC?
- If you go the non VAT route, do you always get clobbered by HMRC on importing (and possible DHL admin fees), or do you sometimes slip through the VAT net?
- Oh, and i suppose the obvious question is, are their batteries genuine/good?
Batteries from Nkon.nl anyone?
- Thread starter Bikes4two
- Start date
Nkon are genuine and I have used in the past (not since the B word have I used them), but now I find Fogstar usually have what I need and no messing with vat or not . On my last order I messed up the 21700 holders and didn't order enough, realising my error I emailed to ammend and they simply threw the few I was missing in gratis.
From Nkon you will get caught for vat if not at sale then on reciept via the courier.
From Nkon you will get caught for vat if not at sale then on reciept via the courier.
Wholesale needs to be min £75 spend but that shouldn't be too difficult.
Even a small 20 cell pack should cover that provided the better cells are used add a few components as well and one should be good to go.
I was surprised to see the new Moli P45b already stocked and for sale albeit nearly £6 a pop, £2.25 more then the P42a which is already a top rated cell.
Even a small 20 cell pack should cover that provided the better cells are used add a few components as well and one should be good to go.
I was surprised to see the new Moli P45b already stocked and for sale albeit nearly £6 a pop, £2.25 more then the P42a which is already a top rated cell.
P45b, not P42b.
Higher power I.e. higher current, so opens up possibilities of fewer cells in parallel for a given max current, so small capacity lightweight battery pack would be their niche in ebikes.
Their 45A continuous rating means you could do a 13s1p pack for nominal 48V, 4.5Ah, 216Wh and use it on fairly chunky motors, albeit for very limited range.
INR21700-P45B – Molicel
www.molicel.com
P45B is 4500mah so only an improvement of 300mah, it current rating is 5a higher. Overall running time is approx 7 - 9% more, in the four years or so since the P42A came out improvements have been made.
The only other cell in the same class as P45B is the Sams 50S which at 10a continuous has a longer run time, how ever at 15a continuous the P45B runs for longer then the Sam 50S. The P42A is still though the top cell behind these two if one wants decent current at a cheaper price.
Price wise per mah gain, the P42A is still a no brainer imv over the P45B . A 7% range gain over my 8400mah P42A would only be 2.2 - 3 miles towing my trailer with the Ute. At £2 per cell price difference £48 price increase for 3 miles isn't worth it untill they come down in price .
The only other cell in the same class as P45B is the Sams 50S which at 10a continuous has a longer run time, how ever at 15a continuous the P45B runs for longer then the Sam 50S. The P42A is still though the top cell behind these two if one wants decent current at a cheaper price.
Price wise per mah gain, the P42A is still a no brainer imv over the P45B . A 7% range gain over my 8400mah P42A would only be 2.2 - 3 miles towing my trailer with the Ute. At £2 per cell price difference £48 price increase for 3 miles isn't worth it untill they come down in price .
The P42a at wholesale looks a very good buy. I'm almost tempted into battery making for a 1P pack for my awkward framed old MTB.
With any 1p build and high current one would have to use copper series bus and 0.2mm thick bus x 15 - 18mm width to handle the current, then the issue is spot welding 0.2mm with arduino type welders.
Pure nickle doesn't cut it for high power with a 1p build, I would go 2p minimum.
I used the sandwich method of ni coated steel over top of the copper to get a decent weld, the ni steel helps to direct the current better to spot weld and I used slotted ni steel to prevent sideways current .
Pure nickle doesn't cut it for high power with a 1p build, I would go 2p minimum.
I used the sandwich method of ni coated steel over top of the copper to get a decent weld, the ni steel helps to direct the current better to spot weld and I used slotted ni steel to prevent sideways current .
Purely in the interests of experience, I've taken the plunge and ordered 14 cells plus related stuff for a 1P battery pack. This is intended as a small 'on bike' battery for my old mountain bike and my 48V TSDZ2 which has been in its box long enough.
My daily commute is 5 hilly rough miles return, which it will manage fine, and my shopping trips are 10 miles, which should also be OK.
For longer trips there will be a small trailer containing a larger battery, and the bike might grow small 20W or so front and rear horizontal solar fenders!
I may find 1P, about 200Wh, is too small, but it is the edges of a range where the most learning is to be had. I have not decided whether to go 12, 13 or 14S. An even number or a non-prime number packs best, but 13 is the nominal 48V!
I went to fogstar wholesale and bought Molicell P45b, because although the image does not say so, the nicely priced P42a are out of stock.
Slightly more trouble sourcing a spot welder. On all things battery build related, I look to @Nealh's excellent detailed write ups, so I went straight for the Malectrics device, which comes from overseas with a minimum order value requirement that is more than the kit! A little head scratching later, I ordered two! So there may be a spare already imported one available in a while!
No promises on a build timescale.
My daily commute is 5 hilly rough miles return, which it will manage fine, and my shopping trips are 10 miles, which should also be OK.
For longer trips there will be a small trailer containing a larger battery, and the bike might grow small 20W or so front and rear horizontal solar fenders!
I may find 1P, about 200Wh, is too small, but it is the edges of a range where the most learning is to be had. I have not decided whether to go 12, 13 or 14S. An even number or a non-prime number packs best, but 13 is the nominal 48V!
I went to fogstar wholesale and bought Molicell P45b, because although the image does not say so, the nicely priced P42a are out of stock.
Slightly more trouble sourcing a spot welder. On all things battery build related, I look to @Nealh's excellent detailed write ups, so I went straight for the Malectrics device, which comes from overseas with a minimum order value requirement that is more than the kit! A little head scratching later, I ordered two! So there may be a spare already imported one available in a while!
No promises on a build timescale.
Ultimately with the P45B, one can use any buss to manage the max load one is expecting from the tsdz2. I would still make sure the buss can handle 18/20a even if these values exceed the tsdz2 current ability.
0.15 x 15mm pur nickel will give 10a optimal current flow so one will need to double up the nickel and use two layers if not using a copper sandwich with ni coated steel over layer. A 0.08mm or 0.1mm Cu buss will be 20a capable , using the ni coated steel over layer is purely to give the Cu some strength.
Ni coated steel offers up little resistance compared to pure ni when using with copper , with the malelectrics one will get better welds then using only Cu alone.
0.15 x 15mm pur nickel will give 10a optimal current flow so one will need to double up the nickel and use two layers if not using a copper sandwich with ni coated steel over layer. A 0.08mm or 0.1mm Cu buss will be 20a capable , using the ni coated steel over layer is purely to give the Cu some strength.
Ni coated steel offers up little resistance compared to pure ni when using with copper , with the malelectrics one will get better welds then using only Cu alone.
Imagine using one of these on your cycle travels! Could set up the solar panels on the roof.
The No. 1 electric cargo bike
The best e-cargo bike for flexible, efficient, and sustainable last-mile logistics and parcel delivery
www.velove.se
That's a great idea, can't wait to see that! Which panels might you be using?
Rods extending vertically from adult stabiliser wheel struts front and back, could support a large solar panel roof over @matthewslack 's bike?Imagine using one of these on your cycle travels! Could set up the solar panels on the roof.
The No. 1 electric cargo bike
The best e-cargo bike for flexible, efficient, and sustainable last-mile logistics and parcel delivery
Or an arm pedalling bike's could accommodate a solar roof?
The ultimate tilting solar-powered serial-hybrid delta trike | Recumbent.news
Extraordinary tilting trike built by the winner of The Sun Trip 2015 Bernard Cauquil for the next editions of the solar bikes race. A masterpiece with many interesting solutions like hub motor used as a mid-drive which can recuperate even with Rohloff hub.
www.recumbent.news
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@Bikes4two your TSDZ2 page will come in handy!
@WheezyRider a bit heavy for my liking, but the concept is good. I'd want a more aerodynamic shape than house brick!
@guerney the solar roofed trike is an object of envy for sure! Not entirely discounted in my future plans!
I'll share progress when it happens.
@WheezyRider a bit heavy for my liking, but the concept is good. I'd want a more aerodynamic shape than house brick!
@guerney the solar roofed trike is an object of envy for sure! Not entirely discounted in my future plans!
I'll share progress when it happens.
Get another 20-ish Watts by attaching a short roof to something like this on your handlbar? The bike might become a bit top heavy. Alternatively, a solar sombrero? A combination of windscreen and solar mortarboard connected by a ball-jointed telescopic arm?
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Ebike Charges In The Sun
Ebikes are slowly taking the place of many cars, especially for short trips. Most ebikes can take riders at least 16 kilometers (10 miles) without too much effort, at a cost that’s often a si…
hackaday.com
2 X 50W panels:
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