July 15, 20169 yr Very sorry to hear about the loss of so many innocent and good lives at the hands of murdering scum. Let us hope that the French government re-think their intention to release thousands of unchecked people across the channel if we leave the EU. I think it is important to make mention of this so close to the tragedy. All of us, in all countries, need to be thinking about how we can best protect ourselves and cooperate to fight this in the future. I'm sure the French government are decent people and will take the responsible course of action.
July 15, 20169 yr Agreed Tilson. Interesting how we all merely discussed financial implications of brexit. Things like this are way more important. Fighting both against terrorism and the situations that cause it in first place should be our priority. The blokes actions who did this are deplorable but what place is he iin to even contemplate it and what got him there ?? Its a shambles.
July 15, 20169 yr Let us hope that the French government re-think their intention to release thousands of unchecked people across the channel if we leave the EU. Those are the same poor people that are fleeing from the terrorists most likely responsible for these attacks! They've already suffered similar atrocities and deserve our sympathy rather than our suspicion.
July 15, 20169 yr Those are the same poor people that are fleeing from the terrorists most likely responsible for these attacks! They've already suffered similar atrocities and deserve our sympathy rather than our suspicion. You can not possibly know that and your assumption is dangerous to both yourself and other people. It is a well known fact that terrorists are using innocent refugees and migrants as cover to smuggle themselves into countries.
July 15, 20169 yr You can not possibly know that and your assumption is dangerous to both yourself and other people. It is a well known fact that terrorists are using innocent refugees and migrants as cover to smuggle themselves into countries. But presumably not in the least dangerous to those who have had to flee their terrorist run homelands seeking safe shelter in a decent land with decent people. We should not use those innocent refugees for our own political points nor to condemn as terrorists. They too are fearful of and have probably already been abused by the same terrorists as threaten us.
July 15, 20169 yr But presumably not in the least dangerous to those who have had to flee their terrorist run homelands seeking safe shelter in a decent land with decent people. We should not use those innocent refugees for our own political points nor to condemn as terrorists. They too are fearful of and have probably already been abused by the same terrorists as threaten us. Excuse me, but who condemned innocent refugees and migrants as terrorists?
July 15, 20169 yr Excuse me, but who condemned innocent refugees and migrants as terrorists? Did I misunderstand you? It is a well known fact that terrorists are using innocent refugees and migrants as cover to smuggle themselves into countries.
July 15, 20169 yr Did I misunderstand you? Yes. I said terrorists were using innocent migrants as cover to enter countries. Not that migrants were terrorists. How can you possibly misunderstand that? Unless you deliberately tried to mis quote the sentiment of my post. Well did you?
July 15, 20169 yr Yes. I said terrorists were using innocent migrants as cover to enter countries. Not that migrants were terrorists. How can you possibly misunderstand that? Unless you deliberately tried to mis quote the sentiment of my post. Well did you? I'm still not clear. It sounds like you're saying terrorists are hiding amongst refugees. Perhaps you could clarify.
July 15, 20169 yr Those are the same poor people that are fleeing from the terrorists most likely responsible for these attacks! They've already suffered similar atrocities and deserve our sympathy rather than our suspicion. Worth bearing in mind alleged terrorist was a French national, not a refugee or amongst them, lets not conflate issues
July 15, 20169 yr Worth bearing in mind alleged terrorist was a French national, not a refugee or amongst them, lets not conflate issues That was the point I was attempting to make... rather inefficiently it would appear.
July 15, 20169 yr The difficult problem to solve appears to be that this type of individual doesn't "Flag up" as a possible Jihadi and there is no way to predict when he would shift mentally into murderous mode. In many ways this is also true of suspects with known leanings towards religious extremism that can lie dormant for years. Even with heightened surveillance their camouflage day to day appears impenetrable. Other than a blanket news ban on atrocities which may have no effect it's hard to come up with useful suggestions as to how to deal with the problem. Edited July 15, 20169 yr by oldgroaner
July 15, 20169 yr That was the point I was attempting to make... rather inefficiently it would appear. The difficult problem to solve appears to be that this type of individual doesn't "Flag up" as a possible Jihadi and there is no way to predict when he would shift mentally into murderous mode. In many ways this is also true of suspects with know leanings towards religious extremism that can lie dormant for years. Even with heightened surveillance their camouflage day to day appears impenetrable. Other than a blanket news ban on atrocities which may have no effect it's hard to come up with useful suggestions as to how to deal with the problem. it's a bit like newt Ginrich wanting to interview every Muslim in usa and ask them whether they support sharia law - and deport them if they say yes. what kind of committed terrorist will say to an fbi interviewer he "supports sharia law"? sometimes one has to stand in awe of politicans' thinking. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/newt-gingrich-muslims-sharia-law-donald-trump
July 15, 20169 yr it's a bit like newt Ginrich wanting to interview every Muslim in usa and ask them whether they support sharia law - and deport them if they say yes. what kind of committed terrorist will say to an fbi interviewer he "supports sharia law"? sometimes one has to stand in awe of politicans' thinking. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/newt-gingrich-muslims-sharia-law-donald-trump other than the conflating of a vast heterogeneous religious movement with terrorism..
July 15, 20169 yr I'm still not clear. It sounds like you're saying terrorists are hiding amongst refugees. Perhaps you could clarify. Yes. ISIS have claimed that their terrorist operatives have entered Western Europe by mingling with large groups of innocent people who are either migrants or refugees. I believe that at least one of the Paris attackers used this route. Indications are that this latest attacker originates from Tunisia.
July 15, 20169 yr Yes. ISIS have claimed that their terrorist operatives have entered Western Europe by mingling with large groups of innocent people who are either migrants or refugees. I believe that at least one of the Paris attackers used this route. Indications are that this latest attacker originates from Tunisia. And I'm sure terrorists have mingled with merchant bankers in London, but, just like the unfortunate refugees, that shouldn't lead to victimising all merchant bankers. Well, not for unavoidably mixing with terrorists anyway.
July 15, 20169 yr And I'm sure terrorists have mingled with merchant bankers in London, but, just like the unfortunate refugees, that shouldn't lead to victimising all merchant bankers. Well, not for unavoidably mixing with terrorists anyway. yes, I was about to say Mohamed Bouhlal (Nice terrorist) was also an ice cream seller and that that doesn't mean all ice cream sellers are suspect, but apologies if that sounds a making light of an awful tragedy
July 15, 20169 yr And I'm sure terrorists have mingled with merchant bankers in London, but, just like the unfortunate refugees, that shouldn't lead to victimising all merchant bankers. Well, not for unavoidably mixing with terrorists anyway. And where abouts did anyone say that we should victimise all refugees and migrants? Please point me to the section where I said that. Are you deliberately fabricating statements for dramatic affect?
July 15, 20169 yr And where abouts did anyone say that we should victimise all refugees and migrants? Please point me to the section where I said that. Are you deliberately fabricating statements for dramatic affect? You talked of hoping the french government would not release unchecked people.
July 15, 20169 yr And where abouts did anyone say that we should victimise all refugees and migrants? Please point me to the section where I said that. Are you deliberately fabricating statements for dramatic affect? a substantial number of brits travelling abroad are jihadists http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985 they may have done more terror than isis in the west have(think all the car bombs in Iraq and Syria, and Nigeria's problems with Boko Haram). How would we feel if the world felt British visitors should be scrutinised in case they hide jihadists?
July 15, 20169 yr You talked of hoping the french government would not release unchecked people. Absolutely. Everyone, me, you, my family, your family, refugees, migrants should all undergo security screening before moving from one country to another. Now returning to your point about victimising migrants. Can you please point me to the bit where I suggested that this would be a good idea?
July 15, 20169 yr a substantial number of brits travelling abroad are jihadists http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985 they may have done more terror than isis in the west have(think all the car bombs in Iraq and Syria, and Nigeria's problems with Boko Haram). How would we feel if the world felt British visitors should be scrutinised in case they hide jihadists? If Brits were involved in terrorism abroad. Id be quite happy to undergo screening and checking before entering another country. I've got nothing to hide and it seems like a totally sensible precaution to me. As I said before, I hope the French government don't carry out their threats.
July 15, 20169 yr Absolutely. Everyone, me, you, my family, your family, refugees, migrants should all undergo security screening before moving from one country to another. Now returning to your point about victimising migrants. Can you please point me to the bit where I suggested that this would be a good idea? Which unchecked people? The tourists, terrorists or the refugees? I'm trying to make the point that amongst those people you hope will not be allowed to leave freely are some very desperate victims of terrorism. Though at this stage there is no clear indication that the single perpetrator was linked to any terrorist agenda it is the terrible consequence of such acts that suspicion mounts. Edited July 15, 20169 yr by JuicyBike
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