Any ideas how come?

[OxygenJames]

Any ideas how come more people dont have an electric bike?

To me it seems really weird that you see so many regular cyclists but hardly any electric bikes out there. Why the heck is that? Surely anybody who has ridden one will see how great they are - I don't get it - I see cyclists near me struggling away - especially in this part of London (wimbledon/tooting/wandsworth) where the traffic is mad so there are quite a lot of people who cycle because its actually quicker than a car.

I just think it must be because they haven't tried an electric bike - I just cant get my head around it.

 

[flecc]

It's because Britain isn't a cycling country. We have cyclists who tend to think of using added power as cheating, but we lack true utility riders who use their bikes just as transport and don't think of themselves as cyclists.

In contrast in The Netherlands, bikes are just transport for a huge proportion of the population so they are happy to use anything that assists. The result is that every eighth bike sold is electric and that's still rising.

France is a touch more like us though not as bad. There the sales of electric bikes are currently falling, but they do have lots of keen cyclists who won't use assistance.

 

[OxygenJames]

It's because Britain isn't a cycling country. We have cyclists who tend to think of using added power as cheating, but we lack true utility riders who use their bikes just as transport and don't think of themselves as cyclists.

In contrast in The Netherlands, bikes are just transport for a huge proportion of the population so they are happy to use anything that assists. The result is that every eighth bike sold is electric and that's still rising.

France is a touch more like us though not as bad. There the sales of electric bikes are currently falling, but they do have lots of keen cyclists who won't use assistance.

Right - I hear you - interesting.

Quick story on the 'cheating' thing.........

I saw three pretty young (late 20's) fit looking mountain bikers (expensive looking bikes too) going up the hill that goes up to Wimbledon Village from Station - its no fun that hill on a regular bike - well they were a short ways ahead and in no time I had caught them without breaking sweat and then went flying past them and as I did I good-humouredly patted the battery pack on my bike smiled and said 'hey guys - you need some assistance there!' - they smiled and one shouted back 'but thats cheating!' - to which I replied: 'Does it look like I care?!!' and pulled further away from them!

I really dont get this 'cheating' thing. Is brushing your teeth with toothpaste 'cheating' because its more effective at preventing tooth decay?

I think its probably because 'men' - or so called 'men' - think any kind of 'help' is somehow an insult to their masculinity! Fools!!

 

[danfoto]

Any ideas how come more people dont have an electric bike?

As flecc says, but apart from that, based on what people have said when they've engaged us in conversation about our Kalkhoffs, part of the reason may be ...

The perception that they are unreliable. This seems to be based on either something they've seen on the television, or somebody they know/heard of who bought a cheapie off Ebay.

They know nothing about them. Most people we've spoken to seem to think that they are basically electric mopeds i.e. the pedals are for when the battery packs up.

They'd never considered that you can actually do most of your shopping on one.

Or that you could ride to work without getting sweaty.

They have no idea what a decent bikes costs nowadays - powered or not.

And that's just off the top of my head.

What's certain, and very sad, is that as I've said elsewhere, most people we've spoken to definitely see "Cycling" very much as something involving Lycra, magic hats and a rack on the back of the car.

It actually gets quite boring saying "But I'm not a bloody Cyclist. I'm just a bloke who rides a bike."

 

[amigafan2003]

Electric bike are also expensive. Most people don't ride bikes that cost £1k - they ride bikes that cost £150 from Halfords.

Oh, and to the cheating comment - I always reply "so did you cheat when you drove to work this morning? My bike is a form of transport, not a form of exercise - and a form of transport that costs me 6 pence each commute". They normally get it then.

 

[danfoto]

I really dont get this 'cheating' thing.

Me neither - and round here, on the few occasions I've heard it so far, it's invariably been from some boring old fart* in faded Lycra on a Dawes Galaxy with rat-trap pedals and a dead saddlebag who's wobbling all over the road because it's not manly to use your granny gear.

(* I speak as a mere lad of 65)

 

[flecc]

I really dont get this 'cheating' thing. Is brushing your teeth with toothpaste 'cheating' because its more effective at preventing tooth decay?

As everyone says, it's because cycling is seen as exercise or a sport. In those terms an e-bike is cheating.

Back in the late 1940s and 1950s when Britons did mostly cycle to work and some even shopped with bikes, they were utility riders. So the add-on petrol assist engines we fitted to bikes back then were immensely popular, within 5 years outnumbering today's e-bikes on the road ten times over.

The message is clear. Unless and until Britain returns to utility cycling, e-bikes will never be popular here.

P.S. Just heard something relevant on BBC radio 4. Many young people don't like walking because, in their own words, "It makes you sweaty and spoils your hair".

What hope is there of ever getting youngsters like that cycling?
.

 

[funkylyn]

The 'cheating' comment really does my head in.
Now I usually just shut them up by commenting that it enables me to cycle 50 miles in one go instead of 20......not that I actually DO that many times...but I have, and I can

Most people then think thats amazing, because normal everyday recreational cyclists dont and couldnt do that mileage on a normal bike, so it usually makes them think.

My bike is purely recreational to get me, usually, off the road, out of the car, and into the countryside that I normally wouldnt be able to enjoy.
I certainly dont get on my bike every day, but when I do its great fun.

After 8 years of enjoying electric bikes it still makes me smile every time with the pleasure and freedom of it

Lynda

 

[eddieo]

well down here in Benidorm e bikes are everywhere.......I must see at least 50 a day, have lost count. Most not that exciting or high tech, cheap generic Chinese bikes that do the job.

 

[indalo]

Just heard something relevant on BBC radio 4. Many young people don't like walking because, in their own words, "It makes you sweaty and spoils your hair".

You gotta stop listening to that Radio 4 Flecc. It just ain't hip man; it's for old people!

Indalo (straightening hair after walking back from the doc's!)

 

[mike killay]

I agree with what is written above in various posts. Britons in general see cycling as a sport or hobby, not transport. To them, cycling is the same as going to the gym and they cannot understand why anyone would want electric assistance.
Those who do ask me, generally OAP's, are woefully misinformed. Frequently I am asked if the pedals will generate electricity, some know of people stung by cheapy scams, others cannot believe that an electric motor can be so powerful.
Pretty well all wince when told the price.
Where I live, I am fortunate to have a cycle path that leads to the Town center and other places. Most people in Swansea are not so fortunate and would have to ride on dangerous roads. Except for a few pathetic attempts to provide cycle ways, the City Council are clueless. They recently revamped the City Centre and basically forgot about bikes which now have to share the bus lanes with bendy buses. The city abounds in killing fields for cyclists, simply because the highway planners make no allowance for bikes.

 

[flecc]

You gotta stop listening to that Radio 4 Flecc. It just ain't hip man; it's for old people!

Only because they are the only ones around during the day to listen to much of it!

Further comment to the above P.S.

The survey revealed young people thinking a two mile walk was something completely extraordinary, while older people thought nothing of it. All the indications are that the nation is getting out of the walking habit over time due to young people's attitudes.

 

[neptune]

It is interesting that flecc speaks of utility cycling. In the fenland village where I was born, everyone had a bike. You could not start school until you could ride a bike. Everyone was a utility cyclist, and rode serious utility bikes, or "roadsters" as we called them . They had heavy steel frames, dynamo lighting, rod brakes, and quite few had the old 28 inch wheels. You could always tell a farm labourer on his way to work, because, tied to his bike were all the tools he might need during the day. These might include a spade, pitchfork, and a scythe, and of course his dinner bag. On the way home, there might be a couple of rabbits or pheasants hanging on the handlebar.

The village Bobby had an enourmous bike with 28 inch wheels and two crossbars, one below the other. He had a large , black, rolled up cycle cape, with which he would crack you round the ear, to correct any errant behaviour. {Police Brutality!} We could all have used some assistance in those days, especially the lady who used to ride with one hand whilst towing a pram with the other, and another child in the kiddy seat on the back. But of course we had no electricity to charge the battery.

Flecc, in talking about add on cycle motors, has previously said that the 32cc Cyclemaster was too underpowered to be much use. That makes me wonder about the Lohmann Diesel version which had 18cc of tyre shredding power. I have not actually seen one, but have read about them. A Diesel, but not as we know it. No injector or injector pump, it had a carburretor, and ran on paraffin, or a mixture of petrol paraffin and diesel fuel . I would be interested if flecc has any tales to tell about these. Aparently, you had two twistgrips, one for the throttle, and one to vary the compression ratio of the engine.

 

[Eaglerider]

Indeed, all of the above, plus:

Most people just don't know or understand what an Ebike is. Weeks back, 6 people had a quick whizz round the pub car park on mine. None of them had any idea what an EBike was beforehand. They all loved it. One bought a used Wisper the next day for £800. Another bought one a few days later and already wants to buy a second one.

Most people are not aware, and are not exposed to Ebikes. the comparison with "cyclists" is a bit misleading. I don't actually believe they are key to the Ebike market.

It's more for silly old duffers like me, well over 55 years and around 85 kilos. I think the real growth market is amongst middle aged and older people who probably have not cycled since childhood, but would dearly love to experience the sensations cycling provides once again. They are also more liklely to have £1000 to spend on a non essential item.

Many, like me, will buy one for a laugh and to get to the pub. Once they see how capable these bikes are, they will start using them for all those little trips near home that they would otherwise drive to.

Not everyone will want an Ebike, amongst my close motorcycling colleagues, they all think I'm potty.
But of course, they are the ones missing out on all that fun!

 

[20ston]

just reading this thread got me thinking. i started using a ebike 18 month ago, my heart went into permenant AF. riding up anything steeper than a kurb leaves me a breathless wreck.
prior to this i was a life long cyclist, mainly doing offroad touring and mountainbiking.

i bought a kalkhoff proconnect disc to enable me to still get out riding with my friend.
but i hate riding it, it reminds me how heavy, slow and cumbersum it is every time i ride it. but it is a means to a end.
i either use it or do nothing, which i am not prepared to do.
also compare to a similar hybrid bike, which is all it is but fitted with a battery and motor, it is damned well expensive. at least 2 thirds more expensive.
but like i said, it is a means to a end.
if i were well i would never consider using a ebike for any kind of riding, even knowing what they are like now would not convince me to use one.

just my twopenneth.

 

[themutiny]

I used to try to patiently explain the 'cheating' thing. I clearly recall stopping at my local pub after a 37 mile Cycle. It was not utility cycling, it was not for exercise, it was just for fun. The landlady, as is her wont, enquired after me - where had I been etc. I told her, and a certain lardass who was sat at the bar observed that I hadn't done anything of the sort since the bike did it all for me, and followed up with the time-honoured cheating allegation.

Given that this individual spends most of his waking hours propping up the bar with his beer gut, and whose opinions which are freely given(but seldom wanted) indicate that his IQ is insufficent to allow him to walk and chew gum concurrently, I decided on a different tack. Instead of trying to describe colour to a blind man, I lost my rag and was really rather rude. Funnily enough it seems to have got the message across.

 

[flecc]

Flecc, in talking about add on cycle motors, has previously said that the 32cc Cyclemaster was too underpowered to be much use. That makes me wonder about the Lohmann Diesel version which had 18cc of tyre shredding power. I have not actually seen one, but have read about them. A Diesel, but not as we know it. No injector or injector pump, it had a carburretor, and ran on paraffin, or a mixture of petrol paraffin and diesel fuel . I would be interested if flecc has any tales to tell about these. Aparently, you had two twistgrips, one for the throttle, and one to vary the compression ratio of the engine.

I knew of it but have no experience of it at all. Of course the high torque of a diesel would compensate for the lack of capacity to some extent, where tiny petrol engines are all about power output and seriously lack torque. That's the opposite of what a bike add-on motor needs.

The original black shell Cyclemaster was the weakest of all the add-ons by far, so it wasn't long before the capacity was pushed as far as they could go in the limited space to 32 cc. In a grey hubshell, it frankly made little difference, gaining a bit in power but still very poor torque. And that is the trouble with all the petrol add-ons, they could turn in some good speeds on the flat in favourable conditions but seriously lacked uphill pulling power, especially if the cyclist let the speed drop too far. Our electric motors completely outclass them for torque and corresponding climb power.

 

[danfoto]

I think the real growth market is amongst middle aged and older people who probably have not cycled since childhood, but would dearly love to experience the sensations cycling provides once again. They are also more liklely to have £1000 to spend on a non essential item.

OK then ... that's obvious to you and it's obvious to me, so why is it not obvious to The Trade? Are we both wrong, or is The Trade in fact targetting that section of the market and it's just that I've never seen any evidence of it?

 

[flecc]

the comparison with "cyclists" is a bit misleading. I don't actually believe they are key to the Ebike market.

I think the real growth market is amongst middle aged and older people who probably have not cycled since childhood, but would dearly love to experience the sensations cycling provides once again.

I fully agree that British cyclists are not the area from which the e-bike market will grow, they are mostly the wrong sort of cyclists, not utility riders.

However, although a target market, I don't think the middle aged and older are a good growth market in Britain. Most simply won't relinquish their comfortable and cosy car for the doubtful pleasures (as they see it) of cycling. There will always be a few exceptions, who as you put it "would dearly love to experience the sensations cycling provides once again", but they are a very, very small minority.

 

[overlander]

This thread puts into words exactly the conclusion i have came to, i use the electric bike as transport and the normal bike for fun. BUT on saying that i have my touring bike with me today and shaved an unbelievable 15 minutes of my commute (1hr 30 Mins normally). Must have had my weetabix this morning! Just think is was a combination of some very fast hills where the lights were in my favor and as i get fitter the 15mph limit on the e-bike is slowing me down. But on saying that on crap windy days the electric bike is just fantastic and will remain as part of my transport for a long time to come. So yes separate them into different categories and it all makes sense and i do agree anyone who has tried one want one.