Any Advice For a Novice?

[currycook]

Hi Everyone!

I've just come across this forum so I thought I would register as it seemed a good place to come to for some basic advice and information.

What it is, I've decided that I can no longer afford to run my car as the five-mile daily commute I use it for just doesn't justify what it's costing me. Unfortunately, life being what it is, I've still got to get to my part-time job! I've been doing some research on electric bikes as they seemed an affordable alternative, without all the grief of buying a moped, paying for the compulsory training blah blah etc, etc.

I don't do public transport generally as it's overcrowded, a rip-off, inconvenient and I always seem to get the malodorous care in the community case sitting next to me, wanting either to fall asleep on my shoulder or tell me his/her life story in a very loud voice.

What I'll get for selling my car will easily cover the cost of a new electric bike and, on paper, it seems like an attractive proposition. I live on the outskirts of Derby and within 800 yards of my front door there is an excellent cycle network which goes all the way into town, all off-road, much of it riverside and very pleasant. The last half mile on-road which goes to my workplace, however, is a steaming great hill which I could never cope with on a pushbike, indeed it wears me out just walking up it.

I have the condition MS (Multiple Sclerosis) and although I'm generally very well, I have weakness in my right leg which makes ordinary cycling on a pushbike hard work, even on a level surface.

So, what I'd like to know from all you lovely experienced electric bikers, is: how does an electric bike actually work? I've not been able to find any information as to what you actually do when you climb on one! How does it compare to a pushbike? If my leg starts to feel weedy, can I stop pedalling and cruise along instead? If I was having a tired/rotten leg day, could I cruise most of the way without doing very much pedalling at all? Are the controls, gear changes etc. complicated to work? Do battery chargers come with the bike when buying new?

My return commute along the network would be about 5 miles a day and I would be looking to recharge the battery about twice a week, I wouldn't want to have to do it every day.

What kind of a bike would you recommend? I've been reading during my research lots of good things about the Ezee Liv - this name/model comes up again and again. For the record I'm a lady in her early 40's, not very fit and 5'8" in height. Do you think this model would suit me, being a novice?

You are quite welcome to laugh at this bit, but it bothers me to think about moisture and electricity! Are they safe to ride in wet conditions without me turning into a pile of black dust as the result of a huge electric shock?!

Thanks for listening to a confused and unsure newbie and I hope you may be able to spare me a few words of wisdom!

Cheers, Lisa (currycook)

 

[flecc]

Hello Lisa, welcome to the forum. First the reassurances. There isn't any possibility of electric shock from the very low voltages used on these bikes and they are safe in rain. The electrics on most bikes now are well waterproofed anyway, just to avoid breakdowns.

They do feel heavier than ordinary bikes, but are simplicity itself to ride, in some ways easier than a normal bike since the motor assistance leaves you more relaxed. Some use throttle control and don't have to be pedalled, but some have to be pedalled to get power and they are called pedelecs. They won't climb anything though, since they are electric assist bikes, not having enough power to be like mopeds on all hills. All of them come with chargers.

Your journey distance is viable for any bike on the market, but the Li-ion batteries used on most of today's bikes should be recharged every use if they are to last well, though every second day wouldn't be too bad on your commute. That's not difficult as on nearly all bikes the battery is easily removed to take indoors. One of the few bikes using NiMh batteries would enable twice weekly, but there's not many of those.

The eZee Liv you mention is quite powerful and doesn't have to be pedalled, but I can't say how it would be on that hill without knowing it's steepness. One problem with it is that it only has a 3 speed gear hub, so that would limit what you could do on a hill to help even more. A 7 or 8 speed gear would be much better, but the eZee bikes with those are a bit dearer, from about £995.

The Powabykes at around the Liv price are powerful climbers with adequate gears, but are much heavier bikes, about 39 kilos against the 28 kilos of the Liv. The reason they are heavy is the SLA battery type they use, but with them you might be able to go a whole week without charging. However, the battery cannot be so easily removed as it's heavy.

This isn't a complete list by any means, but if you can put a name to that hill or give the closest named points, I might be able to find it on Google Earth and judge the slope for more recommendations to be given.
.

 

[currycook]

Novice

Hi Guru!

Many thanks for your reply, which was really helpful, particularly regarding the Ezee Liv and possible alternatives. The hill in question is DE23 6SA and the road is called Mill Hill Lane. I don't understand useful things like gradients, having been chucked out of the Girl Guides early on in my career with them.

For an experienced or fit person, it probably won't seem like much of a hill, but to me, it's like Snowdon.

Thanks again for your advice.

Cheers, Lisa (currycook)

 

[flecc]

As you suspected Lisa, that doesn't look too bad. I think the Liv could probably handle it unaided, or with just a little help. An alternative if you like the simplicity is the eZee Quando, which is a folder but a full size bike nonetheless, since it's one of the best hill climbers of all, but a little dearer than the Liv.

That just couldn't be simpler, as it has no gears, just twist the throttle and go, just like a scooter/moped. Very little help with pedalling is ever needed, and it might do your whole trip with you just admiring the scenery as your only contribution. It's range used like that is nearly 15 miles, so you'd need to charge the easily removed battery every second day. It looks small in pictures, but its full size as said and suitable for your height. I own one of these, and you can read a short journey story from me here.

The Liv and Quando are supplied by 50cycles.

The Powabykes I mentioned will also cope with the hill easily, and they are supplied through local dealers. This website page shows your local dealer for them in Derby, and they are an approved service centre. Hawk Cycles

There are some other bikes which might also manage the climb unaided, though with all of them, the weight to be carried affects the outcome. I won't be so ungallant as to ask your weight, just assuming that you are no heavier than you wish to be.
.

 

[electric.mike]

hi Lisa and welcome

the only thing i would add to fleccs excellent advice is the powabykes i have known, whilst being very powerful machines do need you to start the bike moving up to about 3mph before the motor kicks in, they are fairly heavy and i wonder if this may be a problem for you on gradients or head wind.
mike

 

[bersh]

Quando ezee II and hills

I strongly disagree with the response to the lady who has MS and is looking for a bicycle that can handle unassisted travel. When I purchased my pedel from NYCE in New York City, June of 2007, I had very little literature from those folks and from EZEE about how often to recharge, and the effect on the battery if under unassisted power/usage. When I returned the battery to NYCE in late July because it failed going up a hill while I was pedaling full out, the NYCE folks tested the battery over three days and indicated that the 8.5 reading (out of either 10 or 9.2 depending on whether to believe the manual or the NYCE folks) was normal, and all was well. BUT HERE IS A SUMMARY OF A HANDOUT THEY HAD PRINTED IN WHICH THEY INDICATED THE FOLLOWING:1) the battery would be damaged if used unassisted for more than 3 seconds 2) that the battery needed to be recharged after every usage....Had they handed me this document prior to purchase, I never would have closed the deal and never allowed them to ship the bicycle to San Francisco. In otherwords they knew or should have known that the material the manufacturer had drawn up describing this bicycle was not accurate, and in effect, this bicycle should not be used on a regular basis in steep hill situation because it has no gears to allow one to provide an effective assist. Now, I have returned the battery to the bike in San Francisco, and recharge it every time I use the bicycle. This is a pain in the butt. Furthermore, although I have not used this bicycle more than say, one hundred hours, the battery has substantially deteriorated, and in my opinion, will not last through its one year warranty. I wonder how my dealer will handle this outcome in terms of giving me a new battery. I blame them for not having adequate, accurate information describing the battery's ability, and even more important, the meaning of the red, yellow and green lights in relation to one's daily driving and recharging experiences/needs and expectations. Plain, honest English - just the Flecc kind of analysis was missing. Still, the important bottom line is this: Flecc re-engineered his Quando II as a direct result of the same type of experiences I had. This bicycle (the Quado EZEE II)is good for primarily flat surfaces, not for hilly situations. It needs the seven gears that Flec added to provide adequate pedal assist power. In the strongest words I can muster, the Quando II is not appropriate for unassisted use, especially for someone who has a muscular degenerative condition.

 

[prState]

This bicycle (the Quado EZEE II)is good for primarily flat surfaces, not for hilly situations. It needs the seven gears that Flec added to provide adequate pedal assist power. In the strongest words I can muster, the Quando II is not appropriate for unassisted use, especially for someone who has a muscular degenerative condition.

Although, saying San Francisco is "hilly", is like saying Everest is just a mountain.

Granted though, if a prospective e-biker has to deal with even one severe hill on a commute the wrong bike is going to be a big disappointment.

 

[flecc]

As prState has said Bersh, that is an extreme case, and certainly doesn't apply here.

My Quando II had no trouble climbing 1 in 8 (12%) hills with it's single gear unaided, and with the battery freshly charged would cope with 1 in 7 (14%), in both cases with 73 kilos of me at that time plus a few kilos of shopping. Not only that, it could restart on 12% unaided. A to B magazine with a similar weight rider have reported 13% unaided and 12% restart unaided. There's no doubt that the Quando II is the most able unassisted hill climber of all legal e-bikes in the UK, though probably just about matched by the eZee Forte now in that respect. My modifications were in part to extend the bike's ability to beyond 20% hills, which doesn't apply here.

Since as you'll see above, I checked the hill to be climbed first and found it to be a lesser gradient before giving the advice, the advice cannot be wrong for an average UK weight person.

As for the battery maintenance for best life, we do give the correct advice in here in this forum repeatedly, there's further on it on the home page, and yet more on my websites, so members know the right situation. Coupled with that is the fact that the eZee agent 50cycles gives that same advice and their delivery drivers often issue it also at the point of delivery.

So though I sympathise with your experience, here in the UK the situation is very different for Lisa, and as said, the advice was sound.
.

 

[flecc]

Adding further to the above Bersh, the advice from Nycewheels that the battery would be damaged if used without assistance is nonsense. I've often taken the lazy option of not pedalling with both battery types for half an hour or so without wrecking the battery. It's true that Li-ion batteries can cut out under extreme conditions without assistance, and San Francisco's hills are not just extreme, indeed I'd regard it as an unsuitable place for e-biking.

As another member has remarked, perhaps the eZee Chopper would have been better for you. That has a seven speed hub gear and the motor geared lower, so is more suitable for steep hill work with pedal assist, but with the penalty that top assisted speed is 12.5 mph. However, given that those downhills can give much higher top speeds when coming down them, that might not be a problem. Nycewheels stock the Chopper on this link, and better still offer it with the alternative of the NiMh battery which never cuts out under load and can be used until empty before charging.

In view of your problems with the Quando, perhaps some sort of deal could be struck with Nycewheels for a Chopper with NiMh replacement. If that proves impossible, perhaps they consider a heavily discounted NiMh battery and charger as recompense for your poor experience. The NiMh battery will never cut out on the Quando, it will just slog on right to motor stall point.
.

 

[jac]

hi you could look at the heinzmann bikes like the estelle which have reasonable hill climbing ability or buy the kit with a strong motor and get it fitted to a bike of your choice you could ask teamhybryd or kietics shop in glasgow for advice as both seem helpfull

 

[fishingpaul]

hi lisa just a note about powabykes,if you pedal backwards whilst holding the throttle open, they will pull away from standstill,so require no effort to take off on the flat,they are much heavier than most modern electric bikes though.

 

[Brangdon]

I did a trip last week on a Liv without pedalling, and although it got me home the battery light was orange after just a few of miles. As if it had 1/3rd the range. Gentle pedalling helps a lot, and I should think one-legged pedalling would help too. The usual advice is to keep the battery charged up, and that is especially true if you might have a bad day and rely on it to get you home.

As you are in Derby, it is probably worth arranging to visit 50Cycles in Leicester and trying out a few bikes. (I'm in Nottingham, by the way.) I didn't like the feel of the Quando so wouldn't advise anyone to buy one without trying it.