Another cyclist death this morning.

[Synthman]

A lot is made of drinking and driving, and more recently drugs and driving , but to be perfectly honest either in combination with cycling is surely just as dangerous for the individual on the bike - and potentially others too. All the same reflexes are needed for cycling. Don't know if there are any specific rules about this but you never hear much about it. "Furious cycling" is I think an offence - and I am informed that contrary to popular belief you can be done for speeding on a bicycle (albeit the lack of a number plate makes it harder to prove who it was).

It amuses me that people who don't drink and drive think it's OK to cycle to the pub and back for a couple of pints. With the strengths of many beers sold these days, they would fail a roadside breath test without much doubt - but share the road with other road users in exactly the same way.

Personally, I'm even less happy about getting on a bike after having a drink (or the next morning after having a few) than getting behind a steering wheel. Perhaps it is an increased awareness of one's vulnerability on a bike without a metal comfort cage for protection. Got no car at the moment anyway and since deciding to cycle everywhere instead I stopped drinking completely. That's not a response to any rules - just prefer it that way.

On the other end of the spectrum, a friend I've known for many years does still go partying regularly at the weekend, consumes cocktails of recreational substances (each to their own and all that)but drives a lorry during the week and does suffer the odd bout of occasional 'rage' . Makes me go a bit cold to be honest. As far as pot is concerned, effects on reflexes are very long lasting (as are detection times) and many people smoking it do it daily or a few times a week. Can't see how that is a natural fit for safe cycling - or driving - to be fair.

I have experience with the substances mentioned in this topic. Funnily enough I stopped drinking completely soon after getting the ebike. Out of all of the legal and illegal drugs alcohol is one of the worst. I imagine some medications will also drastically alter the way that one may drive/ride. To be honest the change I've seen in people when they are drunk is terrifying. The hangovers can last well into the next day, and even the day after, and the effect on the body is negative. As for crack/smack if the person injects it they have even higher risks of overdosing, sites getting infected and hepatitis, HIV and AIDS. They are also extremely addictive and expensive and you meet awful people on the journey to score more class As. As with alcohol I think they're a complete waste of time and money and not worth the health risks. 1 hour between spliff and riding though if you can handle it!

More worrying is that I've seen some sober people have less control of their chosen vehicle than those under the influence!

 

[jumpin]

Another thing that should be made legal (and regulated + taxed), but that's a discussion for another day.

... That's all we need, more junky's on the road

 

[amigafan2003]

... That's all we need, more junky's on the road

So are you saying they aren't already on the road?

There is evidence to suggest incidences of driving whilst under the influence of cannabis would REDUCE if it were legalised.

 

[103Alex1]

More worrying is that I've seen some sober people have less control of their chosen vehicle than those under the influence!

That, my friend, is very true indeed ! The barneys in the car, turning round to tell the kids to be quiet, texting whilst pulling out at junctions in bust traffic closing every possible gap so cyclists can't get through (yes, Mr White Van caught red-handed yesterday evening - wasn't even looking and couldn't possibly have seen anything - and both cars ahead at the T-junction never turned their heads before closing all gaps). The list could go on and on. The law does not make criminals out of these people ... for the sole reason that their offence is not measurable. Hmmmmm ......... that makes sense !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Scimitar]

... That's all we need, more junky's on the road

Congratulations.

 

[steveindenmark]

We have a similar problem in Denmark.

I am an ex LGV driver and in my opinion they can decorate the truck with as many mirrors as a vespa scooter, put on sensors, whistles and bells. But the only way this type of accident will ever stop is when cyclists start keeping away from trucks. Especially trying to sneak down the inside of them at junctions to get the jump on them.

 

[SRS]

We have a similar problem in Denmark.

I am an ex LGV driver and in my opinion they can decorate the truck with as many mirrors as a vespa scooter, put on sensors, whistles and bells. But the only way this type of accident will ever stop is when cyclists start keeping away from trucks. Especially trying to sneak down the inside of them at junctions to get the jump on them.

Cyclist keep away from trucks? Obviously we all try and do this, however from my experience it is the truck or bus driver that just can wait 2 or 3 seconds for the cyclist to pass a junction before turning.

The vehicle just has to speed past and turn left as fast as possible in a hope that the cyclist will be left behind.

The pace of life is now so fast, that 2 seconds seems too much to ask. I have lost count of how many times a bus races past me, only to pull in to the bus stop 10 mtr's ahead of me.

How about a policy that all vehicles should, by law keep a distance from pedestrians any cyclists of at least a metre.

I appreciate that there a few nitwit cyclists and motorists that fail to appreciate that artics are required to take corners wide but these are in the minority. Don't sneak up on the inside.

The up shot of it is that a cyclist is unlikely to kill a 40 ton driver what ever he does. The reverse however is not the case.

 

[indalo]

How about a policy that all vehicles should, by law keep a distance from pedestrians any cyclists of at least a metre.

I doubt another law would be adhered to by those drivers who ignore existing laws. You could equally reverse that idea and suggest we have a law that all cyclists must keep at least a metre away from all vehicles but that would simply be ignored by the criminals on bikes who break existing laws.

Perhaps if all road users simply observed speed limits and showed a little respect and good manners, negotiating our highways and byways would be a more pleasant experience.

Indalo

 

[SRS]

showed a little respect and good manners, negotiating our highways and byways would be a more pleasant experience.

Indalo

I agree, lets have everyone being nice and considerate to others.

 

[PJM]

I had the misfortune to investigate a fatal accident where the victim was an elderly female cyclist. She got off her bike wheeled it passed a safety railing and back against the traffic. She then crossed tight against the front of a cement mixer. The traffic moved off and the driver did not see her. Having jumped up in the cab it meant she was out of sight. He had numerous safety mirrors and lenses. However if his final check was a life saving wing mirror check he would not have seen her. He was acquitted at court. He was devastated and had a clean accident history and licence.

 

[flecc]

A very small number of London trucks now have a forward downward pointing mirror as well that shows what is immediately in front of the cab to avoid this type of accident. Of course that does make a truck driver's job even more difficult, bringing an ideal full complement of mirrors he needs to look at to 7.

Given that the driver also has to pay full attention forward, I think that's asking the impossible, and I say that with considerable truck driving experience. Cyclists are responsible for their own safety in the same way that all road users are and trying to transfer all responsibility for that onto others is fundamentally wrong.

 

[Old_Dave]

The old 'rule' used to be... if you cant see the drivers eyes then there's no chance of the driver seeing you. (may of been worded... if you cant see me, then I cant see you)

Even when you can see the whites of their eyes its still a game of chance.

 

[Hackney Andy]

"Cyclists are responsible for their own safety in the same way that all road users are and trying to transfer all responsibility for that onto others is fundamentally wrong."

In what other sphere of human activity can you operate a lethal piece of machinery in a public place and not be held responsible for the death and injury it might cause?

This is precisely the mentality that has made it acceptable that our country alone has lost nearly a third of a million of it citizens lives on the roads in the last half century. I believe this number also approximates the global, annual loss of life.

 

[SRS]

We happen to have a friend who was a truck driver. In court this year for killing a cyclist at a set of lights.
I do not know the full set of circumstances but he was not held responsible by the courts.

A tragic incident that not only, destroyed the cyclists family but his too.

Just drive a car around Central London and you will appreciate that cars, cyclists, people and signage come from all angles. Couple this with the pace of traffic and you will understand why these accidents happen.

Lorry drivers are generally professional drivers and do not set out to cause injury.

The real issue in my opinion is as follows: should we be mixing 40 ton trucks or any other vehicle mix with slow moving cyclists?

The answer is no, the two don't mix. Until the powers that be allocate a good proportion of our taxes to address this issue, the deaths will continue.

 

[flecc]

"Cyclists are responsible for their own safety in the same way that all road users are and trying to transfer all responsibility for that onto others is fundamentally wrong."

In what other sphere of human activity can you operate a lethal piece of machinery in a public place and not be held responsible for the death and injury it might cause?

This is precisely the mentality that has made it acceptable that our country alone has lost nearly a third of a million of it citizens lives on the roads in the last half century. I believe this number also approximates the global, annual loss of life.

What a upside down way of interpreting what I posted!

Where did I say it was not a drivers responsibility to drive safely? I didn't.

I said cyclists are responsible for their own safety (in the way that every road user is), this is an addition to any driver's responsibilities. Too many cyclists rant about other road users without ever looking at their own behaviour, which from observation is probably the worst of all road users.
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