Another battery issue :)

[Mike Robinson]

I haven't been about for a while but I have been using my bicycle quite a lot. It's an Easy Liv and it would have the earlier type of battery but I can't remember what type that is. The battery has been running fine for quite some time but it now seems to be running out of juice very quickly - charge it up for 5 hours and it seems to run out in 5 minutes.

Is the battery dead? is it a battery memory type issue that can be fixed? would it be just one battery that's died and could I test and fix it? any idea how much it would cost for a whole new battery (I'm guessing I can't afford this at the moment)? how much to re-cell it and could I use the same charger? could a lion type battery be used and would that be a cheaper/better solution?

I did see a nimh battery post but I wasn't sure whether to add my post to that one or start afresh. Sorry if I did the wrong thing.

Mike

 

[eddieo]

Onbike are now the Ezee agents, why don't you have a chat with them, they post on here now and then....

 

[flecc]

It wil either be a li-ion battery or an NiMh one, and if you look on your charger label it will tell you which. Either way the only option is a new Li-polymer battery, which could mean a new charger will be necessary if your old one is for NiMh.

You'll see on this link that I've just posted on this Liv issue for someone else.
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[Mike Robinson]

The information in the link is a bit depressing. The bike itself has loads of life left in it but a £500 charge every two years is not what I was expecting. I've left a message with Onbike so hopefully there may be some hope left. Otherwise I guess I'm going to have to replace the front wheel and convert the bike back to a normal bicycle.

If this is normal for electric bikes then I'd suggest a sticky post just to outline the future costs a potential owner is likely to incur as this is a bit of a shock. It also raises a bit of a question mark over the whole electric bike path. I suppose it could be worse and I'd bought an electric car.

Mike

PS I don't suppose there are standard battery packs I could buy (at a much cheaper rate) that I could then fit to the bike? Is this situation normal for all electric bikes (Li-ion, nimh, lead acid)?

 

[eddieo]

I think most who do there homework before purchasing are aware that present battery technology means a useful life of 2 years and a bit.

no one likes the idea of paying out more, but I still think the flexibility and advantages of an E Bike make this additional cost worthwhile, cheaper then regulirly buying fuel for instance......

LifePO4 technology potentially offers batteries with a far longer life, but early days. there are some other threads re getting batteries re conditioned. I think you would be better of selling and buying a lighter normal bike rather then converting it.

 

[fishingpaul]

I am with you on this one i cannot justify spending £400 every two years on a new battery, the only cheap option is lead acid batteries as i am using on my torq, you would have to make up a pack of three 12v batteries in a toolbox or something and mount it on the rear rack,its very easy to do for under £100 but it adds about 9 or 10 kilos to the bike,old technology and not what most on here would use but its kept me on the road.

 

[flecc]

It also raises a bit of a question mark over the whole electric bike path. I suppose it could be worse and I'd bought an electric car.

Absolutely true Mike, but to quite an extent it's the economic mess we are in that is making things much, much worse. Just two years ago the batteries were half these prices and those prices were widely forecast to fall. Instead we've made a mess of our economy and are paying dearly for it in many ways.

One day we'll come out of it and meanwhile developments will make prices fall as well, so we could yet see batteries costing not much more than £100 at today's equivalence. In addition, the LiFePO4 types that will be gradually introduced will have a life of at least double existing types, which alone is equivalent to halving the price, so they could be like £50 li-ion ones.

Therefore long term the future is definitely much brighter than it seems at present, but of course that doesn't help you now.
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[fishingpaul]

I think most who do there homework before purchasing are aware that present battery technology means a useful life of 2 years and a bit.

no one likes the idea of paying out more, but I still think the flexibility and advantages of an E Bike make this additional cost worthwhile, cheaper then regulirly buying fuel for instance......

LifePO4 technology potentially offers batteries with a far longer life, but early days. there are some other threads re getting batteries re conditioned. I think you would be better of selling and buying a lighter normal bike rather then converting it.

I only think an ebike is cheaper to run than buying fuel if it replaces a car or saves on congestion charging,it would probably work out much cheaper to buy a cheap petrol scooter and run it for a few years than to buy and run a £1000+ electric bike.i would agree with you though to buy a normal bike rather than converting the liv to a normal bike

 

[Mike Robinson]

I heard back from the folks at Onbike. They seemed like nice guys and certainly knew their stuff. Sadly the cost is still the same figure as quoted above so it looks like I'll be peddling a lot harder for the foreseeable future

Must admit shelling out £400 pounds every 2 years does seem like a considerable expense - perhaps you guys are a little more affluent than me. My Vespa (a petrol scooter) does around 80mpg so I'd be able to do around 7k miles for the same cost.

I'll first look into re-celling the battery myself - must admit it looks a little bit daunting though. After that I'll look into either converting it into a pedal bike by just changing the front wheel (I do quite like the bike) or simply sell it.

Mike

 

[eddieo]

I use my bike more or less daily. A battery at approx £400 divided into 104 weeks is the equivalent of £3.84 a week. The last time I put a fiver's worth of fuel in a car was many moons ago........

 

[flecc]

I'll first look into re-celling the battery myself - must admit it looks a little bit daunting though.

I assume from this that it's an NiMh.

The problem is that there isn't room for cells with end buttons or tags to fit in the case in the six columns of five, they have to be smooth ended cells to be short enough, and they are the dearer ones. Then there's the problem that touch contact isn't adequate to carry the currents involved, so the cells have to be soldered together in columns of five. To do that a large "hammer head" double ended head soldering iron is necessary. A jig is made using a straight length of angle or channel to keep the cells in a straight line, the cell ends are tinned and then the ends of a pair of cells are quickly heated simultaneously with the double head iron and the top cell in the jig quickly pressed down onto the one below before the solder hardens. This process is repeated cell by cell until the five in a column are joined, and the tricky bit is avoiding damaging the cells with heat while having just enough heat to get the solder to flow as the cells are brought into contact.

Once six columns are made, they are bound together with the NTC thermistor in the middle near the top and the ends of the columns joined by wire links to complete the series of 30 cells.

A long time ago one member did try recelling one with end pressure contact only between the cells, but it proved troublesome in use.
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[Mike Robinson]

Flecc: Yes, I took it apart and that's what it looks like inside. I read in another post that there are re-celling people about but I've yet to find out what they charge or whether they can do it. They do seem to have battery packs which are shrink wrapped and perhaps a couple of these might do the job - not sure at the moment.

eddieo: Regards £400 being a mere £3.84 a week for two years - I suppose you could also say it's only 50p a day or just 2p an hour but it's still a very sizeable £400 every two years which is way more than I can justify on a bicycle I'm afraid.

One advantage of having nothing in the battery compartment was that I was able to put a few rolls of wrapping paper in there after visiting the supermarket. Another advantage was finding that all the extra effort peddling up the hill towards my house at least made me feel warmer in all the falling snow. I suppose if a lot of people are having this issue at the moment then we could have a thread called something like "101 uses for an empty battery compartment".

 

[Alex728]

Must admit shelling out £400 pounds every 2 years does seem like a considerable expense - perhaps you guys are a little more affluent than me. My Vespa (a petrol scooter) does around 80mpg so I'd be able to do around 7k miles for the same cost.

I think this is the issue - whether the vehicle is replacing a motor car and/or whether you have a petrol powered two wheeled vehicle or want to / are able to ride one - stuff like licensing and insurance also comes into play for younger folk especially, also the nature of your travel / work. I work very late sometimes, and if I revved up a scooter leaving at 1-2am some nights from my office in a converted barn the "good life" type familes around these parts would soon enough lose their "eco-friendly tolerance" and complain to Mid Suffolk District Council or even the constabulary!

Plus I can't keep a scooter inside the house without oil everywhere, nor wheel it easily down a side path with steps..

 

[flecc]

I read in another post that there are re-celling people about but I've yet to find out what they charge or whether they can do it. They do seem to have battery packs which are shrink wrapped and perhaps a couple of these might do the job - not sure at the moment.

None of them do a suitable type of this kind of vertical pack though, they are nearly all side by side cell formations and there's no space for enough D cells across the case inside. It doesn't help that the case shape is stepped inside, though it could be done with C or sub-C cells, but they won't have the discharge rates that the powerful eZee motors need for full power. and the range would be more than halved.

This webpage shows the range of 36 volt high discharge rate types from one of the main international pack suppliers:

Batteryspace
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[mike wakefield]

Gosh this is really depressing; I have two electric bikes; a failrly new single speed one with a Lead Acid battery that I use to cycle locally around my village (no hills, max 2 -3 miles) and a second-hand Yamaha Easy bought recently so I could get further afield (having had a Yamaha a few years back and liking the build quality, hub gears and motor type).

I had planned to replace them both with something like a Kalkhoff to celebrate my 60th birthday next year, but am now thinking an iZip would make far more economic sense given that the whole bike can be replaced for the same price as a new battery for more expensive machines.

Mike Wakefield

 

[NRG]

By the sound of it your alternative is to go DIY and mount a Ping battery in a rear Panier / Rack bag and somehow adapt the wiring to fit in with the current battery mounting / connection system....