Another accident in the news

[Scorpio]

The report describes it a an E-scooter with 2 people on it, I suspect it means E-moped not kids scooter type but it's unclear.
Serious head injuries, so no helmets?
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/wolverhampton/2021/06/13/two-people-believed-to-be-riding-e-scooter-seriously-injured-in-wolverhampton-crash/

Possibly related, I have seen reports from people in the Midlands complaining that E-bikes & E-scooters there are often ridden dangerously and are causing chaos. It's only a matter of time before the public will want tighter legislation if we keep seeing high profile accidents reported in the news

 

[flecc]

I suspect it means E-moped not kids scooter type but it's unclear.

It looks like a kids type scooter, photo from ITV news. They are often being ridden two up on the platform:

Hopefully some good will come from all these e-scooter accidents by the trial being dropped and them not being legalised. They are just plain dangerous and have no place on our roads or pavements.
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[StuartsProjects]

Possibly related, I have seen reports from people in the Midlands complaining that E-bikes & E-scooters there are often ridden dangerously and are causing chaos. It's only a matter of time before the public will want tighter legislation if we keep seeing high profile accidents reported in the news

In my experience its rare to see the 'drivers' of eScooters driving them in a safe and reasonable manner in my locality, maybe its different in other areas.

As much as I would personally like to see eScooters legalised, as it would be so easy to store, and a great benefit for the less walking able to get round the shops etc ..........

Unfortunatly, there is enough potential users who would behave like lunnies that it will create significant hazards for other pavement and road users.

The politics of the trials however might suggest that Borris and his supporters dont have the courage to say after the trial "perhaps not".

Sad really.

 

[Scorpio]

Thanks @flecc - I couldn't picture 2 people on that style of scooter so thought it must have been a moped-shaped one. I guessed wrong again.

2 up on one of those on out potholed roads with traffic has to be a recipe for disaster, a shame as they sound a great idea for portable transport around built up areas.

 

[StuartsProjects]

3 up !

on one of those on out potholed roads with traffic has to be a recipe for disaster, a shame as they sound a great idea for portable transport around built up areas.

I was shocked when I first took my recently Swytch_ified Brompton out for a longish ride in my area. The roads by me (Cardiff) are now grim.

Yes there are nice cycle paths in some places, but the average road is now in such a bad condition with multiple ditches and potholes that safe cycling now requires a high level of skill with very good vision, or maybe a high spec mountain bike. Motorists not affected of course.

Sure the cycle path schemes look great for the politicians on the news, but if governement really wants to encourage cycling, then start at the begining, make the roads we already have safe and comfortable to ride on.

 

[flecc]

2 up on one of those on out potholed roads with traffic has to be a recipe for disaster, a shame as they sound a great idea for portable transport around built up areas.

As you say they could be useful if sensibly planned, perhaps taking a cue from the Japanese. There bicycles have to take to the pavement by law in many busy urban areas, but with a strict maximum of 8 mph (13kph). So if we had e-scooters limited to 8 mph maximum they might be safe enough on the pavements. But somehow I don't think our population would be as disciplined as the Japanese.

If these do get legalise here for roads use the government have made it clear they want the Continental rules, maximum of 350 watts and limited to 20 kph (12.5 mph).
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[soundwave]

 

[Scorpio]

If these do get legalise here for roads use the government have made it clear they want the Continental rules, maximum of 350 watts and limited to 20 kph (12.5 mph).

Madness !

I've weighed 13-15 stone since I was a teenager, riding a 50cc moped limited to 30mph when new (low 20s when they've had a few years use and have a big lad on them) always felt dangerous. Plenty of cars in built up areas are doing 35mph. It doesn't sound a lot but the 10mph difference means you are constantly being crowded and overtaken.
Cycling profficiency was taught when I was at school, one lesson that has always worked well for me is to stay away from kerbs when riding on the road to avoid debris & sunken drain covers. Highway code says the same.
Now picture the scene when you mix an inexperienced teenage doing 12mph in the middle of the road (or worse - riding by the kerb and swerving out to avoid drains) with cars doing 35mph

 

[TedG]

I know i am getting older by the hour every minute but I am pretty sore nowadays after a 30 mile ride (my maximum) because of the road conditions.
Cycle paths, greenways and tow paths are excellent here but all roads apart from motorways are diabolical.
My Shimano Steps motor is once again loose in its cradle, as are my lower backbones.

As for e-scooters I had considered one as per #3 to aid with walking inabilities but I abandoned the idea simply because of the reputation they have / are getting.

 

[wheeler]

I've just read that e-scooter sales by Halfords have helped the company to a 105% increase in pre-tax profits for the 6 months to October 2020.
Remarkable considering that these devices cannot be used in public places.

I don't know if this one came from Halfords.

 

[flecc]

I've just read that e-scooter sales by Halfords have helped the company to a 105% increase in pre-tax profits for the 6 months to October 2020.
Remarkable considering that these devices cannot be used in public places.

It has to be the most cynical example of marketing by a mainstream company yet in Britain, since they've clearly known all along that they would all be used illegally.

Although originally doing it, they no longer bother to include a warning on their web pages that they are illegal for use in public. A look at the notes at the foot of the web page below about Stunt Scooters and Kids Scooters for ages 1 to 8, including electric ones, shows just how cynical their marketing is:

Halfords Scooters
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[MichaelM]

You might be conflating scooters and e-scooters - not to say that isn't convenient for Halfords!

This is the e-scooter landing page which does carry a warning, as if anybody would spend £400 - £500 on a scooter to go up and down their drive...

https://www.halfords.com/scooters/electric-scooters/

 

[StuartsProjects]

If we assume they will be legalised, then presumably it will be with the requirement for type approval, licenses and insurance.

So how would that be enforced ?

Mr 'Loophole' (Nick Freeman) was on Radio 4 Today the other morning about his cunning petition to make cyclists and eScooter riders wear tabards with a registration number on, so maybe thats what would happen ?

(Myself I think it possible Mr Loopholes plan is a thinly disguised way of reducing the number of cyclists getting in the way of motorists)

 

[StuartsProjects]

Mr Loopholes petition;

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/585474

 

[MichaelM]

Mr Loopholes petition;

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/585474

A publicity stunt, unfortunately one that will resonate with a certain type.

The irony of somebody who makes his living getting speeding Premier League footballers piloting two and a half ton Range Rovers off on technicalities being righteous about naughty cyclists is not lost on me.

 

[flecc]

You might be conflating scooters and e-scooters - not to say that isn't convenient for Halfords!

This is the e-scooter landing page which does carry a warning, as if anybody would spend £400 - £500 on a scooter to go up and down their drive...

https://www.halfords.com/scooters/electric-scooters/

The page I linked to is their introductory page for both, so that is where there should be the warning. Indeed one used to be there but it was removed. Just look at the footnote on that page:

"Here at Halfords we’ve got a huge range of scooters and accessories, with options from top brands like Micro Scooters, Xiaomi, Carrera, Mongoose and more. With electric scooters for kids and adults alike in stock, alongside a range of exciting hoverboards and electric scooters, we've got something for everyone."

The two parts I've highlighted show only too clearly their cynical intention to ignore the law for users on a page without any legal warning.

Just the mention of kids is more than enough, since (a) the current law is that they need a driving licence for the trial, and (b) the government has said the trial is on the basis of a similarity with pedelecs, which have a 14 years lower age limit.

Halford Kids Scooter page, including electric ones, has a quoted age range of 1 to 8 years.
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[Nealh]

The guy in control of the e- scooter succumbed to his injuries and died yesterday (Saturday) the female is still in critical condition.

Meanwhile in France an Italian tourist along the Seine was killed when mown over by two women on and e- scooter, reports state authorities are looking for them and a charge of aggravated homicide is being made. Apparently the e scooter was being ridden fast and dangerously on the pavement.

 

[flecc]

The guy in control of the e- scooter succumbed to his injuries and died yesterday (Saturday) the female is still in critical condition.

That's our second British road death on these things, plus numerous injuries. I can't see any way they can mix safely with traffic on the road, nor mix safely with pedestrians on pavements.

Meanwhile in France an Italian tourist along the Seine was killed when mown over by two women on and e- scooter, reports state authorities are looking for them and a charge of aggravated homicide is being made. Apparently the e scooter was being ridden fast and dangerously on the pavement.

It baffles me that so many governments have allowed e-scooters, given the obvious dangers. I can only imagine that it's their eagerness to get people out of cars and onto two wheels that's the reason. But if that is the reason, it's irrational. People drive cars to carry things, shopping from supermarkets etc, kids to school or actitvities, stuff to recycling, and e-scooters can't do these things. At best they are only useful for local social travel or quite short commutes in good enough weather.
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[Scorpio]

That's our second British road death on these things, plus numerous injuries. I can't see any way they can mix safely with traffic on the road, nor mix safely with pedestrians on pavements.



It baffles me that so many governments have allowed e-scooters, given the obvious dangers. I can only imagine that it's their eagerness to get people out of cars and onto two wheels that's the reason. But if that is the reason, it's irrational. People drive cars to carry things, shopping from supermarkets etc, kids to school or actitvities, stuff to recycling, and e-scooters can't do these things. At best they are only useful for local social travel or quite short commutes in good enough weather.

Very true. I've been working in Southern Europe for more than a year, E-mopeds and (like photo above) E-kids-scooters are very popular - mainly for shorter trips near towns.
The big differences are: very little traffic here compared to UK, a very polite nation who work *with* other road users, and a warm dry climate for 10 months of the year (I wore jeans when I flew here in January - next time I put them on was October for my flight back to UK).
Scooters like this are not safe in the UK, mixing small wheels & poor surfaces is dangerous. They either become a fast moving vehicle sharing pavements with fragile pedestrians or become moving obstacles for impatient poorly trained drivers on busy roads.

 

[TedG]

I was young once - a very long time ago but it scares me now to see the speeds of e-scooters in built up areas.
It certainly seems to be an easy and cheap for non drivers to get about but we have been overtaken while in a cycle lane at 10 - 15mph numerous times by e-scooters on the pavement alongside us.
This can't be right.
Thirty three years on powerful motorcycles and I survived but maybe I am just too old now for this fast new world.