And you thought our e-bike laws are tough!!

I often get the impression from posts that members think our UK/EU laws are tough and that there's a free-for-all in many other places. As the following will show, nothing could be further from the truth, and that includes much of the USA as seen further down.

 

Mainland Europe of course has a single standard which all but Germany strictly follow, and where Germany diverges, additional restrictions apply like registration, insurance and number plate. Many other places roughly follow EU law, Japan's is similar but very much tougher. China has said it will but is delaying implementation to get a smoother transition. Australia has a 200 watt limit and the State of Victoria intends to introduce EU pedelec only law. Malaya has announced that it is banning e-bikes, something which has happened in some Chinese cities and city areas.

 

The videos seen from the USA of 1500 watt or greater e-bikes doing amazing things are mostly off-road or on remote tracks, since nowhere in the USA is more than 1000 watts permitted. Federal law says 750 watts and 20 mph assist, so what? My legally bought and operated e-bike peaks at 1000 watts, and it's the second I've owned like it. US states can pass their own laws but none have gone above 1000 watts or 30 mph and most states stick to federal law. There are 50 states plus Washington DC, which is a federal district.

 

First the bits where the US state laws are easier, States can appear in more than one section, both easier and stricter:

 

These 8 states permit 1000 watts:

 

California, Georgia, Kansas, Maryland, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, Washington DC.

 

These 2 states permit 25 mph assist:

 

Louisiana, Pennsylvania.

 

These 2 states permit 30 mph assist:

 

Connecticut, Idaho.

 

N.B. None of these higher speed and 1000 watt states coincide. Perverse indeed.

 

Now for the bad news!!

 

These 2 states have totally banned e-bikes and refuse to register them as well:

 

Illinois, New York State.

 

These 8 states require a moped licence or some form of drivers licence:

 

Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, Tennessee.

 

These 3 states require e-bike registration:

 

Michigan, North Dakota, Pennsylvania.

 

These 3 states require helmet wearing:

 

Tennessee, Washington, Massachusetts for under 16s on any bicycle

 

North Dakota requires insurance, plus vehicle inspection before going on the road.

 

Nevada requires full lights and mirror fitted.

 

Virginia requires compliance with motor vehicle laws when on road.

 

So there you are, the grass on the other side isn't quite as green as I bet many of you thought previously. The UK and Europe aren't so bad for e-biking after all, and if the European parliament recommendation for complete removal of power limits comes about, there will be many other countries getting jealous of us!

.

Edited March 4, 201214 yr by flecc

I think things are fine here, but we could do with a legal S class of high speed bikes. and then we would be in line with Germany (except we want to keep throttle)

 

I have seen that with the kalkhoff S class bikes in Germany (as they are mopeds and have TUV type approval) that you are not allowed to change anything, including only a certain choice of tyres etc....I guess of else they loose the TUV approval

It is surprising and very dissapointing that 2 states have banned Ebikes altogether . Politicians pay lip service to green issues , but nothing must be allowed to interfere with America`s love affair with Gas guzzling cars . You might as well try to get them to give up their guns . Land of the free , home of the brave , graveyard of the Ebike , God Bless America .It looks like compared to the Yanks ,we have got it made .

Edited March 4, 201214 yr by neptune

nothing must be allowed to interfere with America`s love affair with Gas guzzling cars .

 

Actually I'll be posting another thread tomorrow with some news that might surprise many about this.

 

Suspense!

 

Suspense!

 

......is killing

 

lynda

It looks like compared to the Yanks ,we have got it made .

 

The privileges we enjoy may be lost due to the number of idiots who misuse ebikes here...and boast about it!...rather than ride the appropriate machines for their needs.

 

Indalo

Legislation in Germany is interesting...it really is a form of under the counter protectionism...on our auto business 20 years ago we could sell anything to Germany and it could be fitted to any road car-now you cannot fit anything to a German car without TUV approval,TUV is very expensive to obtain for a non German so it effectively stops after market product being fitted to German cars. This is great for the big German car manufacturers who have a virtual monopoly of anything exciting in Germany.

However the big problem is Toyota,they have to let Toyota into Germany,that means they have to accept Toyota engineering standards-I make alloy car wheels in China that are certified by the Japanese Light Wheel Standards and these have to be accepted in Germany because of Toyota-so we have the stupid situation that I have wheels made in China which have to be acceptable all over Europe but an English wheel manufacturer cannot afford to have his wheels certified for sale in Germany.

Why do I tell this story because already the Germans are insisting that all e-bikes in Germany meet EN15194 standards usually certified by the mighty TUV or SGS organisations. These organisations have a strong presence in China,so we will end up with the stupid situation that it will be easier to certify an e-bike in China than say Spain or Holland-the end effect is the Germans via the TUV/SGS organisations will control the type of e-bike we will be allowed in Europe-excepting they may have underestimated the canny of the Chinese!!!!

Dave

KudosCycles

The privileges we enjoy may be lost due to the number of idiots who misuse ebikes here...and boast about it!...rather than ride the appropriate machines for their needs.

 

Indalo

 

My thoughts exactly ....truth said .!

This is what an S class bike should look like on our roads.....

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/1z4zkgn.jpg

We should have those if we want them Eddie. I really don't see a problem with registration, helmet, insurance and any other requirements demanded to own and use one of these machines. I expect the clowns who already own illegal bikes would object to having to actually pay for the privilege of owning something like that legally.

 

Indalo

The privileges we enjoy may be lost due to the number of idiots who misuse ebikes here...and boast about it!...rather than ride the appropriate machines for their needs.

 

Indalo

 

If you can call me an idiot with impunity can I call you a moron?

 

I expect the clowns who already own illegal bikes would object to having to actually pay for the privilege of owning something like that legally.

 

And again with the insults - it's all getting a bit personal isn't it?

 

Personally I think you're just jealous because you haven't got the balls to challenge a daft law.

 

Oh, and for the record I do have insurance ;-)

Edited March 4, 201214 yr by amigafan2003

And again with the insults - it's all getting a bit personal isn't it?

 

Yes, be critical of other's decisions by all means, but lets keep the personal insults and abuse out of it.

 

The case is better made that way.

I am all for freedom of choice . By all means if people want faster Ebikes , and are willing to pay and jump through legal hoops , I do not have any problem with that . I just hope that things will stay as they are for us 15 MPH guys . I have always been against additional legislation and restrictions on standard bicycles . We are free to run legal Ebikes also , and it would be an awful shame if we ever lost the right .

I have always been against additional legislation and restrictions on standard bicycles . We are free to run legal Ebikes also , and it would be an awful shame if we ever lost the right .

 

It certainly would be. It's a sad fact about laws that very large numbers are passed into force but only very rarely is one removed. Once a freedom is lost, it's lost for ever.

It certainly would be. It's a sad fact about laws that very large numbers are passed into force but only very rarely is one removed. Once a freedom is lost, it's lost for ever.

 

+1 - which is why I think it's important daft laws are ignored - it's a form of civil disobediance which can be very effective in challenging the legislators/government/state etc.

+1 - which is why I think it's important daft laws are ignored - it's a form of civil disobediance which can be very effective in challenging the legislators/government/state etc.

 

That's certainly true if support is widespread and the issue popular enough, but I don't think it can apply in our field. The total number of e-bikes is still peanuts and the illegal proportion only a fraction of that. Much of our population don't even know e-bikes exist!

If you can call me an idiot with impunity can I call you a moron?

 

 

 

And again with the insults - it's all getting a bit personal isn't it?

 

Personally I think you're just jealous because you haven't got the balls to challenge a daft law.

 

Oh, and for the record I do have insurance ;-)

 

I don't remember referring to you at all. Why would I? However, if the cap fits, wear it!

 

Just by way of an aside, I suspect anyone who rides an illegal bike on road probably doesn't have valid insurance because the insurance company hasn't been appraised of all the facts to allow them to quantify the risk correctly. I could be wrong of course as there might be someone out there who has actually informed an insurance company that their ebike is illegal but the insurer has said, "That's fine; no problem."

 

Indalo

the insurance comment from s class pana owner is smoke and mirrors I bet. By now must be well aware he is riding an illegal moped and is probably talking about loss or stolen bike insurance ..which incidentally would be invalid if he has insured it as an e bike ....

 

If I'm wrong, would be interested to find out how the SVA test went and the details....But I suspect I will be waiting a while for that...

 

two things wrong on here, the pop up dealers in every thread, and the bragging about 2000 watt 30mph bikes and the like, which are not e bikes, so better discussed somewhere more appropriate.....This is supposed to be an E bike forum:rolleyes:

Edited March 4, 201214 yr by eddieo

. Much of our population don't even know e-bikes exist!

 

They certainly dont round here,every time i go up town on my little Ezgo Izip people look at me like i am riding a penny farthing or something,why is the average Brit. so conservative when it comes to transport,ie.cars bikes etc.

Whats up guys.......helmet debate got too boring ??

 

Whats a 'pop up dealer' Eddie ??

 

Thought this forum was a good mix of everyone.....not everyone can drive off abroad to buy bikes.....some of us mere mortals need dealers.....

 

Lynda

why is the average Brit. so conservative when it comes to transport,ie.cars bikes etc.

 

I think it's a fear on not conforming, so anything new is only accepted when a critical mass of acceptance is achieved which indicates widespread approval.

 

America the brave, Britain the timid.

I don't remember referring to you at all. Why would I? However, if the cap fits, wear it!

 

 

I ride a bike that assist upto 25mph and a peak motor power of 750watts. By your definition, I'm an idiot simply because I don't adhere to an arbritary, poorly implemented badly worded and stupidly reasoned draconian law.

 

The fact that I'm a responsible rider who adheres to the highway code and is careful in the use of this extra power, especially in the presence of pedestrians (with increased power comes increased responsibility) doesnt seem to have been factored in your reasoning. Tell me, if I rode every where at 25mph under pedal power only would you have an issue with that?

 

I'd put it to you that those blindly adhering to the legislation because "its the law" without any more complex reasoning are in fact the ones with a dubious iq.

 

Oh, and you need to read up on third party insurance liabilities and accepted exclusions. It's like that old myth/fallacy that people trot out stating "if your car doesn't have a valid mot or tax or has undeclared mods then your insurance is invalid".

Edited March 4, 201214 yr by amigafan2003

Phew I'm keeping my mouth shut.:eek:

I ride a bike that assist upto 25mph and a peak motor power of 750watts. By your definition, I'm an idiot simply because I don't adhere to an arbritary, poorly implemented badly worded and stupidly reasoned draconian law.

 

The fact that I'm a responsible rider who adheres to the highway code and is careful in the use of this extra power, especially in the presence of pedestrians (with increased power comes increased responsibility) doesnt seem to have been factored in your reasoning. Tell me, if I rode every where at 25mph under pedal power only would you have an issue with that?

 

I'd put it to you that those blindly adhering to the legislation because "its the law" without any more complex reasoning are in fact the ones with a dubious iq.

 

Oh, and you need to read up on third party insurance liabilities and accepted exclusions. It's like that old myth/fallacy that people trot out stating "if your car doesn't have a valid mot or tax or has undeclared mods then your insurance is invalid".

 

I'm relieved, (for your sake) that you have such command of the law in your role as "a responsible rider who adheres to the highway code and is careful in the use of this extra power, especially in the presence of pedestrians (with increased power comes increased responsibility)......

 

I'm afraid that sounds to me like the height of arrogance but what do I know? Perhaps when you recount that opinion in front of your local bench, should you ever find yourself in that position through your riding an illegal machine on the highway, you'll be completely vindicated and I shall feel such a moronic fool for ever doubting you.

 

I do find it interesting that you are quick to tell us all that you adhere to the Highway Code yet you openly confess to breaking other parts of our UK laws because you find them "badly worded and stupidly reasoned".......some people might call that approach a double standard but I won't risk saying that as you obviously know a great deal about legal matters.

 

Because I'm the doubting type, I'm staggered that you have insurance which covers illegal bike usage on our roads in the UK so, perhaps you'd like to tell readers which company provides that cover. Insurance has come up several times in this forum and some members report having great difficulty insuring legally compliant ebikes so I'm sure they will be eager to know who provides cover for your illegal machine.

 

I'm off now to see if I can find a copy of any book on myths and fallacies. That must be riveting reading material!

 

Indalo

I'm relieved, (for your sake) that you have such command of the law in your role as "a responsible rider who adheres to the highway code and is careful in the use of this extra power, especially in the presence of pedestrians (with increased power comes increased responsibility)......

 

 

I'm afraid that sounds to me like the height of arrogance but what do I know?

 

It's not arrogance - it's called personal responsibilty. I don't need leglistlation to tell me what's safe and what isn't - I have a brain to help me with that.

 

Perhaps when you recount that opinion in front of your local bench, should you ever find yourself in that position through your riding an illegal machine on the highway, you'll be completely vindicated and I shall feel such a moronic fool for ever doubting you.

 

I'm perfectly prepared to have that argument if the time comes. Part of participating in civil disobedience means having the conviction to stand by your decisions and accepting the consequence.

 

I do find it interesting that you are quick to tell us all that you adhere to the Highway Code yet you openly confess to breaking other parts of our UK laws because you find them "badly worded and stupidly reasoned".......some people might call that approach a double standard but I won't risk saying that as you obviously know a great deal about legal matters.

 

I have an advanced understanding of the Highway Code and I consider it a excellent collection of common sense articles that actively contribute to making our roads a safer place. Our current ebike laws however do no such thing. That's the point I'm trying to make - I don't follow the Highway Code simply because "it's the Highway Code" but because it is a useful document. Similary, the current ebike leglislation is no such thing.

 

As far as my understanding of the law goes, yes, I do have several qualifications, particularly surrounding contract and employment law.

 

Because I'm the doubting type, I'm staggered that you have insurance which covers illegal bike usage on our roads in the UK so, perhaps you'd like to tell readers which company provides that cover. Insurance has come up several times in this forum and some members report having great difficulty insuring legally compliant ebikes so I'm sure they will be eager to know who provides cover for your illegal machine.

 

I have third party cover. Let me use an example of car insurance to see if it helps you understand the concept.

 

I take out fully comprehensive cover for my Mondeo. However, I'm a bit short on cash one month so I don't renew my MOT. One morning I drive into a third party causing extensive damage to thier vehicle - the accident is my fault. My insurer is notified and quite rightly refuses to cover thier obligations to me in respect of any injury to me or damage sustained to my vehicle, as I have breached a specific term and condition of the insurance contract (i.e. current MOT). However, they cannot renege on thier responsibilities to the third party, as under UK law they have an implied contract with the third party with NO clauses, and thus they are obliged to make reparations to the third part in representation of their client.

 

The only instance where they would not be liable to the third party would be if they could demonstrate the third party was a contributor are entirely culpable in the accident.

 

So, coming back to ebike insurance - and specifically insurance for illegal ebikes - if you have insurance that has a third party element (they all do) such as insurance via membership with the ctc or via your home insurance, and you have an accident on that bike - whilst you will not be covered for damage to yourself (which you don't need - every UK citizen already has excellent medical insurance) or you bike you ARE covered for any third party damages, even if you ride a bike with two rockets strapped to the back :-)

Edited March 4, 201214 yr by amigafan2003