Alien Titan or Synergie

[ebphil]

Hi every one
I am new to this e biking and trying to decide between the Alien Titan and the Synergie Avantie has anyone had any experince of either.
I live in St Albans Herts and intend to commute to Borehamwood approximately 8.5 miles up hill and down dale.

Phil

 

[Anfield800]

Hi Phil,

I've just bought the Mistral which is the one down from the Avantie. I chose it because it's 36v, the Avantie is 24v if I remember correctly.

I love the Mistral and have no real problems with it. I've changed a few things like the tyres and removed the dynamo, but as it is I'm very impressed for the money.

I'll be writing a review shortly but one thing I have noticed is that the Mistral suffers from extreme retardation from the motor when going downhill. That said, it still knocks 6-10 mins off my commute to work, so I still win.

The bike itself is very good, but you do get what you pay for.

Lee

 

[halfmedley]

With regard to the motor retardation when going downhill, I've noticed that if you can get the bike up to around 25mph (assuming my speedo is accurate), the retardation magically cuts out. However, to get to 20+mph with the Mistral's low gearing does mean pedalling furiously though!

 

[Anfield800]

My only other experience of e-bikes is the ezee Quandos my parents own. They don't suffer from this at all.

Perhaps someone will be good enough to explain it to me ...

Lee

 

[flecc]

The Quando motor is like most internally geared hub motors Lee.

They have a freewheel between the motor and the internal orbital gears, so when the motor isn't driving as in going downhill, the wheel doesn't have to turn it. On a few motors, there's no freewheel and the motor causes drag going downhill. The release of Synergie retardation that Halfmedley notices at higher speeds may indicate that there is a freewheel but a ball and ramp type which tends to stick in the locked position, or that a flywheel effect at higher rotation just might be offsetting the drag.

Two pictures below of the Quando motor internals, the freewheel at the end outside of the gears:

There's a description of the working and an animation on my Torq website here, the Torq using the same motor as the Quando.
.

 

[halfmedley]

I think your "ball and ramp" suggestion sounds the most feasible Flecc, as the change between retarded and non-retarded is instant and noticeably jerky, a bit like a poor gear change in a car. Whereas if it were a flywheel effect I'd expect a smoother transition as the momentum built up? It does suggest that the ramp isn't a very smooth one.

I tend not to ride it at those speeds any more, blame it on initial exuberance!
Trying to stop that mass at those speeds with just V-brakes seemed a bit hairy. Nowadays I hover around 15mph, which means no mad pedalling and a more relaxed cruise into work, plus I'm still going faster than the people in their tin boxes.

 

[flecc]

I think you're right halfmedley. It's very difficult to design ball/roller and ramp drives/freewheels, though with high quality components it's possible.

If the ramp angle is a fraction too steep the drive slips, a fraction too shallow and it jams on all the time. Between those is a narrow window that's ok. Trouble is these cheap systems often use pressed steel components, so the ramp conditions can alter quite quickly with wear or distortion, even when set up perfectly in the first place.

Of course if a motor internal freewheel jams, as the speed rises the ever increasing drag of driving the motor rises to the point where release is forced, around 25 mph in your case. If you used that regularly, the release speed could gradually rise further with wear over time.
.

 

[john]

I wonder if it is worth opening up the motor and greasing the freewheel.

 

[flecc]

I wonder if it is worth opening up the motor and greasing the freewheel.

It might just help if it's accessible, but they are sometimes heavy duty rivetted together, so no possibility of stripping those.

However the pressures involved in the ball and ramp cut through any grease.
.

 

[Biker_Bob]

Hi every one
I am new to this e biking and trying to decide between the Alien Titan and the Synergie Avantie has anyone had any experince of either.
I live in St Albans Herts and intend to commute to Borehamwood approximately 8.5 miles up hill and down dale.

Phil

I've just taken delivery of an Alien Titan. It looks reasonably well built, nice frame welds. The electricky bits work very well and the bike gives good assistance on the hills.
I'm not too convinced about the cycle parts though. Bottom of the range Shimano derailluer and the front mech's very tinny. There's no damping in the front fork. Basically the frame's fine and all the parts that are dubious can be upgraded as you go along.
IMHO, given that the two bikes are almost certainly made in the same factory in China and given the quality of what I've seen I would avoid the Avanti, because I don't think the rear suspension will be up to much. I've got an expensive Dawes MTB with rear suspension - and I've had some trouble with that! The rear suspension is not made with standard parts, so you won't just be able to replace it, like with the front fork.
The Alien is also considerably less, especially when you take into account the shipping (£49 for Avanti, £20 for Alien). I've found Bob (Alienocean) to be very helpfull and responsive to emails. I did talk to some chaps at Synergie and they too were helpfull and friendly.

 

[devonian]

I've just taken delivery of an Alien Titan. It looks reasonably well built, nice frame welds. The electricky bits work very well and the bike gives good assistance on the hills.
I'm not too convinced about the cycle parts though. Bottom of the range Shimano derailluer and the front mech's very tinny. There's no damping in the front fork. Basically the frame's fine and all the parts that are dubious can be upgraded as you go along.
IMHO, given that the two bikes are almost certainly made in the same factory in China and given the quality of what I've seen I would avoid the Avanti, because I don't think the rear suspension will be up to much. I've got an expensive Dawes MTB with rear suspension - and I've had some trouble with that! The rear suspension is not made with standard parts, so you won't just be able to replace it, like with the front fork.
The Alien is also considerably less, especially when you take into account the shipping (£49 for Avanti, £20 for Alien). I've found Bob (Alienocean) to be very helpfull and responsive to emails. I did talk to some chaps at Synergie and they too were helpfull and friendly.

biker-bob, would very interested how you have found the titan bike as I am looking at getting one myself. Has it been reliable? Whats it like on the road? Whats it like on hills??

cheers
Dave

 

[Saddlesore]

Alien v Synergie v e-bikeUK

I have been considering both the Alien Titan and the Cruiser which although slightly higher in price seems to have a better spec but no suspension but that's not particulary an issue. Bob alias Alienoceon has been most helpful in explaining the differences between the two bikes and the fit your own kits he is also marketing on ebay.

Another quick bike being marketed on ebay is the e-bike UK which they are offering to travel 100 miles for £10 for you to try it out. The bike seems quite well specced and with a rear hub motor and disc brakes on the money for £595.

I assume all these bikes come out of China but has anyone any experience of them and as a potential first time buyer ( in early June) I would appreciate any comments as to their reliability and rideability from anyone with experience of these makes.