Agutta 1st Impressions

[Cyclezee]

Agattu 1st Impressions

Hi, just got back home with my medium frame Agattu. I must say the bike looks great in all respects. I'm glad I collected as I noticed the battery was marked. James quickly swoped this for another one. The rear mudguard was not quite straight, but only minor adjustment required.
I am charging the battery at the moment so will have to wait 4 hours before I can take it for a spin. I will report on the ride later.

I used my digital bathroom scales to weight it, I made it 26.5Kg including battery. Then I weighed my Giant Lafree Twist Lite large framed model including battery using the same scales, it came to 23.9Kg, that makes the Agutta by un scientific method 2.6Kg heavier.

If any members can be bothered to make a trip to Milton Keynes, (BEST PLACE TO LIVE IN THE UK ) they are welcome to view it, might even let you have ride.

I will also have a Wisper Works 905se for anybody wishing to see what they look like in the next few days.

Please send an email or PM if you are interested.

John

P.S. Whilst at 50cycles had a brief look at the Torq Trekking and picked one up, felt heavier than the original Torq. Looks nice, but what about those batteries?

 

[John L]

Hi John

3 ebikes!! Interesting to see how the Agutta compares to the Giant and the Wisper.

As for the 2.6kgs, I stood on the scales this morning and confirmed that I am over 7kgs heavier than I was this time last year! - so priority for me would be my own weight rather than a couple of kgs on the bike

Hope you enjoy the ride.

John

 

[c_elder]

Hi, just got back home with my medium frame Agutta. I must say the bike looks great in all respects...I am charging the battery at the moment so will have to wait 4 hours before I can take it for a spin. I will report on the ride later...
I will also have a Wisper Works 905se for anybody wishing to see what they look like in the next few days.

I'm an e-bike newbie hoping to make the transition in Feb/Mar 2008. You have the very 2 bikes (Wisper 905Se and Agutta) on my shortlist.

I, for one (suspect many others too), will be very interested in your views on how these 2 bikes measure up against each other.

 

[Cyclezee]

I'm an e-bike newbie hoping to make the transition in Feb/Mar 2008. You have the very 2 bikes (Wisper 905Se and Agutta) on my shortlist.

I, for one (suspect many others too), will be very interested in your views on how these 2 bikes measure up against each other.

The 2 bikes are quite different in concept, the Agattu is similar to the old Giant Lafree Twist Comfort in many ways using a Pansonic crank motor. The Wisper Works 905se is a hybrid style, has a hub motor and is similar to the Ezee Torq in design, but the Wisper is certainly the lightest of all.

John

 

[c_elder]

The 2 bikes are quite different in concept, the Agutta is similar to the old Giant Lafree Twist Comfort in many ways using a Pansonic crank motor. The Wisper Works 905se is a hybrid style, has a hub motor and is similar to the Ezee Torq in design, but the Wisper is certainly the lightest of all.
John

I'm not 100% sure of the difference between crank motor and hub motor. Looking more closely at pictures of the Agutta and Wisper, it seems that the motor in the Agutta is housed in the pedal section whilst the Wisper has the motor on the back wheel. Is this what you mean and what difference does it make?

Thank you in advance.

 

[flecc]

I'm not 100% sure of the difference between crank motor and hub motor. Looking more closely at pictures of the Agutta and Wisper, it seems that the motor in the Agutta is housed in the pedal section whilst the Wisper has the motor on the back wheel. Is this what you mean and what difference does it make?

Thank you in advance.

My take on the difference is that as the crank drive system drives the chain together with the cyclist, the bike remains a bike in every way. The power is applied with the rider's pedal strokes, so is bionic in nature, rather like the rider having stronger muscles.

Hub motors have rather more motor vehicle characteristics, especially when throttle controlled like the Wisper, the power continuing independent of he rider when in throttle mode. Even when switched to pedelec mode only, they retain more of the motor vehicle feel.

The drive through gear system has the advantage of being able to climb just about anything just by changing down gears, but is not usually as fast a bike. The faster hub motor system can be found a bit wanting on the very steepest hills, since the motor's fixed gearing is a compromise between speed and hill climbing.

In use, the Panasonic crank drive system in the Agattu and similar bikes requires a bit more input from the rider overall, but that not varying too much with hills. The hub drive bike needs very little from the rider in easy conditions on the flat, but often much more on the hills.
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[HarryB]

I'm not 100% sure of the difference between crank motor and hub motor. Looking more closely at pictures of the Agutta and Wisper, it seems that the motor in the Agutta is housed in the pedal section whilst the Wisper has the motor on the back wheel. Is this what you mean and what difference does it make?

Thank you in advance.

This seems to be a common question - what are the different types of drive:

Hub motor
Crank drive
Friction drive

Flecc - do you think this answer could go in the FAQ as it would be an easy place to find it?

 

[flecc]

It would be a good idea after I've added friction drive as well. At the moment I could only post it in the Technical section where I already have a very long article on the disadvantage side of crank drives, since there's no suitable FAQ section at the moment.

I'll check it out with Russ to see if he'll enter a new general subjects FAQ.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

Oh dear, went out for my first ride at about 4.30pm, all went well for the 300 yards until I came to my first hill and I started to exert a bit of pressure on the pedals. The left pedal fell off When I realised what had happened and stopped swearing, it took me 5 minutes in the semi dark to find the offending item. If it had been completely dark I would never have found it.
I pushed the bike home and gave the pedal a thorough examination, a piece of aluminium from the crank arm had stripped and was visible on the black thread of the pedal. As I said in my original post I collected the bike fully assembled pedals and all, not like the ones that are delivered and which you have to put the pedals on yourself. When I tried to put it back, after cleaning the threads, bearing in mind it is a left hand thread it was quite difficult to engage and screw in when lined up straight. I can only assume that the pedal was not quite straight when it was assmbled and subsequently cross threaded, thereby the pedal was tight, but not fully engaged and the first hill did the rest.

I immeadiately phoned 50cycles (without allowing time to cool off) and told my story, I am not going to mention any names at this stage, but the man I spoke to had assemled the bike himself carried out a pre delivery inspection and taken it for a test ride this morning. Any body who knows Loughborough knows ther are no hills, so the pedal did not come under a great load. He did manage to calm me down and apologise, but was sure he had checked the bike thoroughly. I have refitted the pedal taking care to align it correctly and not over tighten it. So far so good.

My next issue which has been mentioned before is the frame size, I am just over 6' and was advised to go for a medium frame, that would mean my wife who is 5'7" would also be able to ride it. Well with the suspension saddle at it's lowest setting I can on just get the balls of my feet on the ground, that is OK with me, but no good for my wife. A solution to this was discussed and it was agreed that they would send me, FOC, a non suspension post and saddle for my wife which can be quickly swopped when she is using it, this will bring the saddle down by a couple of inches, so that shoud be fine.
One other quite minor fault, one of the rear mudguard stays is secured by a plastic clamp with a metal bolt squeezing it tight. On collection I noticed that the rear mudgurd wasn't quite straight, but thought it would just need a bit of adjustment and I would do it when I got home. Unfortunately, I think the allen bolt has been slightly over tightened and spriped the plastic thread. I will have another look at this tomorrow and see if I can sort it.

Now the important bit, my 2nd outing lasted a lot longer than the 1st, pedal stayed on and no problems to report. It was completely dark this time so I just went for a quick 20 minute spin as I am going out tonight and my wife is breathing down my neck as I write this.

The riding position and way it performs is very much like the Lafree Twist which is what I expected it to be. So to sum up, my inital impression is it is a winner

Will take a long ride tomorrow and post again

John

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the report John. I'm slightly puzzled by the rear suspension stay reference, do you mean mudguard stay?

I'll be receiving one first thing in the morning so all will probably become clear then, but if it's one of the larger models I might have to swap the seat stem too. I'll be able to ride in the daylight, though it's forecast wet and windy for the next few days, so still not much fun. Glad you concluded that it's a winner despite the unfortunate pedal episode, not the first time I've seen that on new bikes ex works. Shows the importance of new bike pre-delivery checks.
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[Cyclezee]

Thanks for the report John. I'm slightly puzzled by the rear suspension stay reference, do you mean mudguard stay?

I'll be receiving one first thing in the morning so all will probably become clear then, but if it's one of the larger models I might have to swap the seat stem too. I'll be able to ride in the daylight, though it's forecast wet and windy for the next few days, so still not much fun. Glad you concluded that it's a winner despite the unfortunate pedal episode, not the first time I've seen that on new bikes ex works. Shows the importance of new bike pre-delivery checks.
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Hi Flecc, trust you to spot my 'deliberate' error, yes I did mean mudguard and I have now corrected my post, the mudguard can wait until tomorrow. Just hope we get some nice weather, it's supposed to be sunny here after 9am. Hope you enjoy the bike.

John

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

Not a rare occurrence.

Oh dear, went out for my first ride at about 4.30pm, all went well for the 300 yards until I came to my first hill and I started to exert a bit of pressure on the pedals. The left pedal fell off When I realised what had happened and stopped swearing, it took me 5 minutes in the semi dark to find the offending item. If it had been completely dark I would never have found it.
I pushed the bike home and gave the pedal a thorough examination, a piece of aluminium from the crank arm had stripped and was visible on the black thread of the pedal. As I said in my original post I collected the bike fully assembled pedals and all, not like the ones that are delivered and which you have to put the pedals on yourself. When I tried to put it back, after cleaning the threads, bearing in mind it is a left hand thread it was quite difficult to engage and screw in when lined up straight. I can only assume that the pedal was not quite straight when it was assembled and subsequently cross threaded, thereby the pedal was tight, but not fully engaged and the first hill did the rest.

John

Hello John:
That's a pity that you had a disappointing start to your Agutta ownership.
Left-hand pedal departure: it is a not uncommon occurrence with new cycles: usually because the "engineer" has attempted (and persevered) to fit the right hand pedal to the left hand crank. Not knowing that they are "handed". Believe me it can be done. BUT it destroys the thread in the softer alloy crank.
The fact that you have found the traces of an alloy thread wrapped around the thread on the pedal suggests that there is some damage to the crank. Whether that is due to cross threading or the "other" reason is not important; the crank should be replaced. It may not fail so conveniently (300 yards from home) next time.
I look forward to the full test and review.
Peter

 

[Cyclezee]

Just returned from a 15 mile trip (guessing the mileage as I don't have a computer for it yet. See another thread on that). This time the pedals stayed on
What can I say, it's performance was excellent in all respects, very smooth, very quiet, very comfortable and very tall
I did not find the weight a problem!
I still have 3 of the 5 leds lit on the battery which I was quite surprised at, but then I was in the default medium power mode rather than high or low, so I was putting a bit of effort in.

When I got the bike yesterday, I gave it a 4 hour charge, the handbook recommends at least 3 hours, and as I only did a couple of miles yesterday, I didn't bother to charge the battery.
I have now put the battery on to charge again, but I remember reading somewhere that Li Ion battery should be fully discharged about 4 times when new? Then fully charged every time it is used. (time for Flecc to intervene here)

Overall I am very happy with the bike and can highly it recommend it so far!

Now to increase the weight by adding some 'junk' to it. I have bit of a dilemma about a mirror, I have a couple that fit into the end of the handlebars, but the bars extend quite a way back and I don't think mine will work. What type of mirrors have people tried on the Lafree for example as the bars are very similar in style?
And the bell really is totally naff and difficult to use with gloves on, I'm thinking of one of those ones with the compass in which I have used before. I also need a bike computer, and then it should be complete.
That's all for now folks

John

 

[flecc]

When I got the bike yesterday, I gave it a 4 hour charge, the handbook recommends at least 3 hours, and as I only did a couple of miles yesterday, I didn't bother to charge the battery.
I have now put the battery on to charge again, but I remember reading somewhere that Li Ion battery should be fully discharged about 4 times when new? Then fully charged every time it is used. (time for Flecc to intervene here)

And the bell really is totally naff and difficult to use with gloves on, I'm thinking of one of those ones with the compass in which I have used before. I also need a bike computer, and then it should be complete.

John

All expert opinion is that at least two full discharges and charges should be done to chemically condition the content and achieve full capacity. My last experience was that three full charges did the trick.

I use a Cateye bar end mirror. They often need the insert filing down to fit into the bar, but I find them the best. You can see the type in this pic:

An alternative to a bell is this neat battery horn from Fisher Leisure. Thumb push button on the rear:

My bike arrived with computer as it's a test hack. Great bike, but I won't be publishing yet as it wouldn't be fair to A to B who release their test issue from Monday on. I'll go to press a bit later, no matter as my test will be very different anyway.
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[Leonardo]

Many thanks for the report Aldby!
What do you think in comparison to the Lafree: better or...

 

[flecc]

Many thanks for the report Aldby!
What do you think in comparison to the Lafree: better or...

Better! No more yet Leonardo, see my above post.

Also, check your email on the address I use as I've posted something of interest to you there.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

All expert opinion is that at least two full discharges and charges should be done to chemically condition the content and achieve full capacity. My last experience was that three full charges did the trick.

I use a Cateye bar end mirror. They often need the insert filing down to fit into the bar, but I find them the best. You can see the type in this pic:

An alternative to a bell is this neat battery horn from Fisher Leisure. Thumb push button on the rear:

My bike arrived with computer as it's a test hack. Great bike, but I won't be publishing yet as it wouldn't be fair to A to B who release their test issue from Monday on. I'll go to press a bit later, no matter as my test will be very different anyway.
.

Thanks for the info Flecc. Think I will probably use one of the mirrors I have already. The horn looks like the business. What took you so long

John

 

[Cyclezee]

Many thanks for the report Aldby!
What do you think in comparison to the Lafree: better or...

I will leave further judgement to Flecc, he is the expert

John

 

[PowaDredd]

Sounds like an awesome bike. Can't wait to get one myself.

 

[flecc]

I will leave further judgement to Flecc, he is the expert

John

The more opinions the better I think John. "Experts" don't always get it right, and it's not unusual for insights to come from elsewhere, so better to get the point of view of all owners.
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