Advice needed please

[Geoff Critchley]

Hi I have read a lot on the forum and am now in need of advice. We have 2 Claude Butler hybrid aluminium bikes in great condition and I would like to put an electric kit on them. This is due to myself having problems with my knees. I am coming up to 66 and weigh 80 kilos. We bike in France and it is very flat where we are. The normal distance for us is 30 - 40 miles with a couple of picnics in. We want to continue to pedal so we were thinking of a pedal assist so we can still put the effort in. The fitting is not a problem for me as I was a service engineer. Also can you turn off the electric side so we have the normal bikes again? Could you point us to a kit that is reliable and not too expensive.

Regards Geoff & Jenny

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Cyclotricity kit is about the cheapest. They also give good backup and support. Their motor goes in the front wheel, which brings some points which require consideration detailed below. You need to get the optional LcD or LED display to have adjustable pedal assist. Without one, the power is too high.

Your wireless cycle computers probably won't work because of interference, so you'll probably have to get wired ones. That will be the same for any front motor kit. If you take the option of the LCD (£100 extra), it has all the functions of a cycle computer.

Fitting the motor to forks like yours requires some care because the torque from the motor is enough to pop the drop-outs if not installed properly. When I do it, I always file the drop-outs about 2.5mm deeper because the new flat axle is 12mm rather than your present 9mm. This is to get the axle properly in and to re-centralise it. You may also have to file them a bit wider. The reason to re-centralise is that the first washer needs to sit completely within the dimple (if you have one, otherwise when you tighten the axle nuts the drop-out will pop. You'll then need new forks. Alternatively, you can file the washers to make them eccentric. It's good advice to fit a torque arm, which removes some of the torque reaction from the drop-outs. I'm not sure if Cyclotricity provide them. If not, you can get them from Cyclezee.com.

All this shouldn't put you off. I've fitted much more powerful motors to aluminium forks like yours. Provided you follow those guidelines and do the nuts up nice and tight, it's no problem.

I can't see if your forks have a disc brake mounting point. If they do, you have the opportunity to upgrade your brake to a disc.

Other options are a BBS01 crank-drive kit from Woosh, which is easier to fit, but not as relaxing to ride as a hub-motor for what riding you've described.

The Ezee kit and Woosh BPM kit are more powerful and heavier. I think that they would be overkill for what you want. There's loads of kits available now. They all work. You can also buy the stuff direct from China, which gives better options for mixing and matching parts. It can be a bit cheaper that way, but you won't get any support or warranty.

 

[RobF]

As regards using the bike without power, I don't think it's a goer.

There may be very little drag from the motor, but you are going straight from assisted cycling to ordinary cycling of what is now a very heavy bike - 20kg+.

Fine if you have the fitness to do it, but a better plan is to use the kit on its lowest assist level.

Most have three levels, some more.

Lower assist, as you may imagine, also preserves battery life.

That will be a factor because 40 miles is pushing it from a 10ah bottle battery.

Mostly flat conditions will help enormously, as will doing a lot of the miles on lower assist settings.

A 10ah battery ought to do the job, but it will be all but flat after 40 miles so you won't have much in hand.

We ebikers call it range anxiety.

Alternatively, look for a kit with a 13ah or more battery, but there is a weight, size, and cost penalty - like all things there are 'fors' and 'againsts'.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

As regards using the bike without power, I don't think it's a goer.

There may be very little drag from the motor, but you are going straight from assisted cycling to ordinary cycling of what is now a very heavy bike - 20kg+.

I'm not sure I agree with that at all. I often ride my bikes without power, and so does my buddy Saneagle. We have 20aH batteries and much bigger motors. I've done well over 40 miles before switching on one time, and that was pretty hilly too. I don't think anyone would call me fit either, plus I weigh 100kg. I'm trying not boast. What I mean is that if I can do it, anyone can! This is the bike:

 

[RobF]

I'm not sure I agree with that at all. I often ride my bikes without power, and so does my buddy Saneagle. We have 20aH batteries and much bigger motors. I've done well over 40 miles before switching on one time, and that was pretty hilly too. I don't think anyone would call me fit either, plus I weigh 100kg. I'm trying not boast. What I mean is that if I can do it, anyone can! This is the bike:

Fair enough, one can only speak as one finds.

I think you've done a lot more bike and ebike miles than me, so you are probably a bit fitter than you give yourself credit for.

I've just come back from a short ride and with this thread in mind, I tried the AVE unassisted for a little way.

It wasn't quite as disagreeable as the last time I tried, but I still wouldn't fancy doing many miles or hills with no assist.

 

[Kinninvie]

When I first got the Dillenger kit I had to use some power even on the flat to keep going but now after 500 miles I find that as long as its dead level or lower I can manage to pedal unpowered.
I still cant manage any uphills or headwinds but things are improving so with time it can only improve my fitness.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Dillenger's a bit different. Being a direct drive motor means you get cogging, which can make pedalling tiresome after a bit. The Cyclotricity kit's motor has a clutch like most geared hub-motors, so negligible resistance when pedalling. The only penalty is the weight. The extra 6 kg makes little difference when you're 100kg. I guess that light guys will notice it more.

 

[Kinninvie]

As said I cant currently manage the Dillenger on any uphill without at least minimum motor assistance but that will change as my fitness improves.
I have just got a BBS02 which is a geared drive with the hope that the drag will be a lot less so hopefully I can pedal a lot more without power(round here there are big hills in all directions).
I agree the Cyclotricity kit is probably ideal for flat areas as you can do a lot of miles with human power if your motor has minimal drag and just use the minimum battery required to keep you going on any gradients you discover..
I have started to head away from the dales towards more flatter areas and my mileage is definately increasing by quite a margin and thats with a 1000 watt motor.

 

[Nealh]

Having just fitted a BBS and I have found that once travelling at about 16-17 mph with power off pedelling feels normal, however I haven't tried at lower speeds or from rest yet.

p.s. the giant looks great d8veh.

 

[Kinninvie]

I have only tried turning the square crank with my fingers but its quite possible so with a bit of leverage I am sure it will be a doddle

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Having just fitted a BBS and I have found that once travelling at about 16-17 mph with power off pedelling feels normal, however I haven't tried at lower speeds or from rest yet.

p.s. the giant looks great d8veh.

Thanks, I have this one too with higher spec components:

 

[Geoff Critchley]

I cant believe all the information from you guys , its amazing. I will have a look at the cyclotricity it looks like it will be just what I want. I will also look into the disk brake issue I had not given that any consideration. Thanks to everyone
Regards Geoff and Jenny
PS I dind'nt realise how old I was getting till I saw the 66 scary !!

 

[derf]

As regards using the bike without power, I don't think it's a goer.

There may be very little drag from the motor, but you are going straight from assisted cycling to ordinary cycling of what is now a very heavy bike - 20kg+.

Fine if you have the fitness to do it, but a better plan is to use the kit on its lowest assist level.

Most have three levels, some more.

Lower assist, as you may imagine, also preserves battery life.

That will be a factor because 40 miles is pushing it from a 10ah bottle battery.

Mostly flat conditions will help enormously, as will doing a lot of the miles on lower assist settings.

A 10ah battery ought to do the job, but it will be all but flat after 40 miles so you won't have much in hand.

We ebikers call it range anxiety.

Alternatively, look for a kit with a 13ah or more battery, but there is a weight, size, and cost penalty - like all things there are 'fors' and 'againsts'.[/quote

it depends a lot on the bike...I have a crap Chinese crank job that weighs relatively little - around 25kg - and cycles with power disabled just the way you'd expect a terribly designed bicycle to cycle (terribly), and so hardly ever gets used without assistance and a kalkhoff that's perfectly balanced with perfect ergonomics and riding position that I use increasingly without power for the sheer pleasure of it.