Accelerator and new law question

Not really, since you would be modifying after the applicable date. The bike's approval to standards like EN15194 remains what it was supplied as, pedelec only.

You would be converting it to one needing a type approval, so you'd need to take it through SVA.

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The only problem may be finding new off the shelf accelerator kits (would they be banned? probably no market for them). I cannot see this as being illegal if it's being returned to standard form.

Don't worry about that they are available everywhere. They are only banned in their full speed version, legal as a walk along aid up to 6 kph and as a launching aid to 20 kph on s-pedelecs.

Maybe I didn't word my question correctly. Let's say I want to restore a classic E-Bike (don't laugh). Returning it to it's standard form must be possible in the same way classic vehicles are able to run without indicators or with black number plates or without catalytic converters. The only problem may be finding new off the shelf accelerator kits (would they be banned? probably no market for them). I cannot see this as being illegal if it's being returned to standard form.

You'd probably get away with this, so long as you can show that the e-bike is genuinely pre 2016.

However, strictly speaking still not legal if the vintage bike wasn't originally supplied with a throttle, since you'd be converting from the original specification which may have been approved to EN15194 and CE standards.

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I believed these guidelines from the Department of Transport Nov. 2015 and referring to Jan 2016 changes were the revised version for UK?

It reads

"Power assistance - "Twist and Go" Because of the particular benefits for elderly and disabled users, pedal cycles providing electrical assistance without use of the pedals - usually called "Twist and Goes" - are included in the above GB classification provided they are capable of pedal operation and comply with the above restrictions on maximum motor power and assistance cut-off speed.

However, under European law5 new "Twist and Go" vehicles will, from January 2016, have to meet a range of technical requirements before they can be used on roads. This will normally be established by "type approval" at the manufacturing stage but importers and individuals will be able to seek an individual approval for vehicles that have not been type approved."

http://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/uploads/5/5/9/9/55994159/throttle_electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

Please read flecc's post :

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/1-1-2016-todays-change-in-the-law.23007/page-9#post-290873

http://www.flecc.co.uk/m/Information%20Sheet%20Type%20Approval%20for%20Electrically%20Assisted%20Pedal%20Cycles%20-%20Nov%2015%20copy.pdf

We'll be out of Europe soon anyway

Even if true, we'd still be bound by this law, Norway being an example, never a member but having exactly the same EU EPAC law.

The reason is simple. To be able to carry out trade with the EU as an EFTA member we'd need to comply a with a large range of their laws and some are fundamental to agreement. Transport law is one of those since all transport crosses borders.

And apart from that, if anyone thinks the DfT will rush to ease our EAPC law, they should think again. Even if a miracle happened and they removed the two stages of EU law that changed our EAPC regulations, we'd be left with a strict 200 watt limit and assist speed limit of 12 mph. Yes that's right, our original UK law only provided for 12 mph assist, altered in two stages to fit with Europe, first to 15 mph and last year that refined to 15.5 mph for exactness.

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Edited February 29, 201610 yr by flecc

it usually takes a lot of time and effort to create a new law, Norway for example simply adopt thousands of EU laws even when they don't have to just to save time and money.

It's all too easy to ridicule EU directives, most of them are actually there to raise standard.

it usually takes a lot of time and effort to create a new law, Norway for example simply adopt thousands of EU laws even when they don't have to just to save time and money.

It's all too easy to ridicule EU directives, most of them are actually there to raise standard.

Switzerland too, they've kept in step with various EU laws simply to co-exist more easily with their neighbours.

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The current reason for GB retaining throttle use option up to 25kph strikes me as odd.... Why would "disabled and elderly people" be considered for only a two year period, then left to try and tackle longer distances and steep hills solely with pedal assist thereafter?

Is it anticipated that disabilities and old age will have disappeared in two years from now?

With the recent COP21 conference, governments could take great benefits from more people converting from car to e-bike as a form of everyday transport. A keen roadie will power along comfortably at 25mph+ for dozens of miles, so it seems nonsensical that a throttle for the less able up to 15-20mph is to be outlawed.

We have the technology, it needs to be embraced xXx

Meh!

Darren

The current reason for GB retaining throttle use option up to 25kph strikes me as odd.... Why would "disabled and elderly people" be considered for only a two year period,

It seems to be due to an administrative delay Darren.

The new provision for having a throttle for those needing one is by type approval to meet EU law requirements. However there is currently no type approval class for pedelecs with throttles and the existing L1e-A (Low Powered Moped) class requirements are impractical for pedelecs.

The January 2018 date is anticipated for introduction of the necessary new type approval class, but meanwhile the DfT is waiving the type approval requirement so that no-one is discriminated against.

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It seems to be due to an administrative delay Darren.

 

The new provision for having a throttle for those needing one is by type approval to meet EU law requirements. However there is currently no type approval class for pedelecs with throttles and the existing L1e-A (Low Powered Moped) class requirements are impractical for pedelecs.

 

The January 2018 date is anticipated for introduction of the necessary new type approval class, but meanwhile the DfT is waiving the type approval requirement so that no-one is discriminated against.

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Thank you flecc, really appreciate your explanation.

Had to read it a few times.... ;P

I'm as much for safety as I am against discrimination; allowing loads of loons on 3kw rat bikes would not be clever.

Sensible people can be responsible for themselves and each other and are the majority.

Sure, limit max. W, max. speed etc.

A good 250w mid drive is ample for larger people or carrying loads and could gain speeds using gravity alone of over 30mph, so why should there be an issue for throttle boost up to 15mph odd?

Not to make it accessible to as many people as possible seems daft. Just a bureaucratic thing I guess? :\

Darren

why should there be an issue for throttle boost up to 15mph odd?

Not to make it accessible to as many people as possible seems daft. Just a bureaucratic thing I guess? :\

Darren

It's historic Darren. The origins seem to have been the pedelec law in Japan which had a proportional power provision meaning the control of power had to be through the pedals.

When the EU needed a law for pedelecs they seem to have followed the Japanese example, exactly the same 250 watts and exactly the same 25 kph assist limit, exactly the same control by pedals only. Rather than adopt the Japanese complex proportional power arrangement they merely specified that the power should phase down before reaching 25 kph.

The Japanese law is fascinating in the way it controls power, and you can read about it a quarter way down my article on how the original Panasonic unit operates on this link.

You'll be pleased our law is nothing like as strict!

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I find it all hilarious and am someone who has spent most of their working life in enforcement and delivering requirements for EU Directives. It's a little button that makes you go slow without the use of pedals.....OMG why did we ever venture out of our Neolithic caves when the world is so dangerous (that was all done in a sarcastic voice by the way and wasn't aimed at any individuals )

I understand the point that an even playing field makes manufacture and trade less complex but I can never imagine anyone enforcing this law beyond the manufacturing stage. That said.... last week I saw a woman on an electric moped wizzing along the highway not wearing a helmet. I couldn't tell if this was 30mph road machine as even the pedal ones are looking like regular mopeds...these are the one's which will attract attention as it looks like a protective clothing offence.

First you need to secure independence status for the Island, then declare it a tax haven (after buying up all the available land).

Second build hypermarkets in each port to generate revenue from tax free tobacco sales.

Then you can create your own electric bicycle laws and have your own annual hill climbing race up Union Street in Ryde;)

Edited March 1, 201610 yr by shemozzle999

.....OMG why did we ever venture out of our Neolithic caves when the world is so dangerous

As I posted earlier in this thread, our EU law was quite obviously derived from the Japanese law, and that is explained via a link in this post.

That Japanese law on power levels and control seems ridiculously strict until one knows their cycling circumstances. In many town and city locations there, cyclists by law have to ride on the pavement with pedestrians, so this casts a very different light on the restrictions.

I mention this to show that regulations aren't always as stupid as they might superficially seem.

The problem for us began with the EU following suit, without realising that pedelec only wasn't necessary in their version in the way it was for Japan.

It also has to be said that there is something odd about the UK in this respect, since nowhere in the mainland EU countries has there ever been any of this fuss about not having throttles over their 12 years of pedelec only. And in many of their countries their pedelec use enormously outnumbers ours.

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Edited March 1, 201610 yr by flecc

Japan does not have much wide open road that is for sure... And that is where the EU lawmakers were short sighted. There are parts of rural France where little old ladies still ride several kilometres to town on market day. OK there were a lot more when I first arrived here I must admit.

The EU took on the rules governing the bikes with out looking out at what European commuters conditions were like compared to Japan. The US was much more sensible in that respect. The ban in NYC is because courriers riding push bikes are already a public menace "imagine them on pedelecs!".

The EU took on the rules governing the bikes with out looking out at what European commuters conditions were like compared to Japan.

I don't think this is completely true though. Back in the 1999 to 2003 period when the various laws affecting EU pedelecs were effected, the dominant cycling nation was undoubtedly The Netherlands. The EU Commission would certainly have had them prominently in mind and I'm sure the Dutch were strongly represented in finalising the law, as they still are today. I'm sure you know what their riding conditions are like and the characteristically low speeds they commonly ride at, so there would be little in the EU law to upset them. That's born out by them being happy with the pedelec law, no-one ever complaining about not having throttles in the way UK riders do.

The ban in NYC is because courriers riding push bikes are already a public menace "imagine them on pedelecs!".

True in London too, couriers often being a menace. The police have cramped their style quite a bit in the last couple of years though.

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Edited March 1, 201610 yr by flecc

I don't think this is completely true though. Back in the 1999 to 2003 period when the various laws affecting EU pedelecs were effected, the dominant cycling nation was undoubtedly The Netherlands. The EU Commission would certainly have had them prominently in mind and I'm sure the Dutch were strongly represented in finalising the law, as they still are today. I'm sure you know what their riding conditions are like and the characteristically low speeds they commonly ride at, so their would be little in the EU law to upset them. That's born out by them being happy with the pedelec law, no-one ever complaining about not having throttles in the way UK riders do.

 

 

 

True in London too, couriers often being a menace. The police have cramped their style quite a bit in the last couple of years though.

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It seems many, me included, have at times struggled to interpret the regs correctly, where and when they apply, how they apply, when it changes/changed and so on.

The throttle is not a deal breaker, it just seems to have it place in certain applications. Working with a multi-assist level mid-drive alone is a delight. It's about choice at the end of the day. Whizzing around draining battery and likely heating motor up is not getting the best out it. Most people can manage a reasonable contribution by pedal and rightly so, we all need to keep out 'tickers' ticking.

It nice to have such knowledge, history etc. shared and discussed. Thank you.

Darren