May 5, 20241 yr As in subject I need a battery for newly converted bike with TSDZ8 motor. I have narrowed down choice HAILONG G70 48V 17.5AH £265 5P13S Li-ion 65pcs battery cells (the interior battery is SAMSUNG INR18650-35E3 Li-ion battery) HAILONG-PLUS 48V 17.5AH £290 5P13S Li-ion 65pcs battery cells (the interior battery is LG INR18650MJ1 Li-ion battery) Both available on PSW and shipped from Germany. https://www.pswpower.com/products/no-tax-electric-bike-battery-48v-175ah-downtube-hailong-plus-samsung-cells-pack-ebike-lithium-30a-60a-bms-output-1000w-160 May I ask battery specialists to have a look at cells and tell me if LG is worth little extra? Unfortunately I struggle to find decent batteries at decent price in UK. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
May 5, 20241 yr As in subject I need a battery for newly converted bike with TSDZ8 motor. I have narrowed down choice HAILONG G70 48V 17.5AH £265 5P13S Li-ion 65pcs battery cells (the interior battery is SAMSUNG INR18650-35E3 Li-ion battery) HAILONG-PLUS 48V 17.5AH £290 5P13S Li-ion 65pcs battery cells (the interior battery is LG INR18650MJ1 Li-ion battery) Both available on PSW and shipped from Germany. https://www.pswpower.com/products/no-tax-electric-bike-battery-48v-175ah-downtube-hailong-plus-samsung-cells-pack-ebike-lithium-30a-60a-bms-output-1000w-160 May I ask battery specialists to have a look at cells and tell me if LG is worth little extra? Unfortunately I struggle to find decent batteries at decent price in UK. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. You know about Greenlance. Why don't you want to buy from them?
May 5, 20241 yr Author You know about Greenlance. Why don't you want to buy from them? Almost all batteries are OOS. Only 13Ah is still available.
May 5, 20241 yr There isn't much between them in 5sp form , as long as one isn't asking for more then 25 - 30a continuous then both will be fine. Both will suffer capacity /performance loss if subjected to high current loads. Both are fairly well matched are much better then the originals having been upgraded over the years. 35e has had a couple upgrades during it's production life, the last iteration from 2020/21 is the mk3 and a better cell then the original . The latter cell has a 13a max current and can actually handle the max 8a original rating far better for continuous use. The 3rd version has approx. 6% less capacity and energy , this though is a good move as it has helped the cell to handle more current and sag far less then the original so so saggy cell. As with all cells especially the 3500mah ones , one can't expect range and current it is one or the other . Original 35e was a 3400mah 8a so so cell but the improved 35e3 is now typically a 3200mah cell for ebike use but it has gained far more from current draw ability due to the slight energy /capacity loss of 6%. It has lost the so so 8a labelling and can handle up to 13a but not continuosly, it also has far better voltage curve lines and holds the voltage much higher then the original saggy cell. 35e3 is likely the top rated 3500mah call today , followed very closely by Moli m35, Pan/sony GA and MJ1. There isn't much more then 1 or 2 % between them though the 35e is a vastly improved cell today . Nearly all cells have improved with age and production tweaks. Edited May 5, 20241 yr by Nealh
May 5, 20241 yr 35e3 will still give over 3400mah on discharge but for ebike use one doesn't go down to 2.5v per cell or use the 0.2a discharge rate , so typically the values below are the expected mah values for contant current use. Typically at a 5a continuous discharge rate e3 will give 2250mah to 3.3v per cell , 3a will give 2550mah per cell , 2a will give 2750mah per cell and 1a 2850mah . I can see the 17.5ah battery being a 100 - 120 mile range battery in low pas use. With my Kt set up PAS 1 is all I really use and get 30 - 34 miles locally from my 6ah 12s 2p LG hg2's. Edited May 5, 20241 yr by Nealh
May 5, 20241 yr Author I can see the 17.5ah battery being a 100 - 120 mile range battery in low pas use. With my Kt set up PAS 1 is all I really use and get 30 - 34 miles locally from my 6ah 12s 2p LG hg2's. Battery is for an MTB with prospects of some challenging trips as well as long over 100 miles rides. I hope this MTB to become my all rounder. I could probably be fine with 15Ah battery, but I can't see anything interesting on the market at this moment. I was keeping an eye on 15Ah battery at Woosh in hope for an offer for friends and family like it was on TSDZ8, but no luck there. Surprisingly no detailed info about batteries sold by Woosh on their site. Edited May 5, 20241 yr by Az.
May 5, 20241 yr Author You know about Greenlance. Why don't you want to buy from them? ...also 17Ah battery sold by Greenlance is significantly bigger than 17.5Ah sold by PSW.
May 14, 20241 yr Author Update: I decided to order from PSW Power HAILONG G70 48V 17.5AH £240 5P13S Li-ion 65pcs battery cells (the interior battery is SAMSUNG INR18650-35E3 Li-ion battery) Parcel arrived very quickly. Ordered on Wednesday, delivered on Saturday. I paid for DHL, they sent by Evri. There were no Battery inside warning labels on package. Only this confusing label: I opened package and found this: Not quite 48V 17.5Ah... Of course I contacted PSW and they are now... looking into it. Initially I didn't pay much attention to the battery as I intend to return it, but today I thought OK... it is here, so let me have a look... and OMG... There are no keys included in the box, so battery can't be secured. Battery base is so poorly designed. This aluminum element is not firmly attached to plastic base and it slides easily up and down and touches battery connectors. When battery base is attached to downtube, movement should be limited by screws, but whole thing will still be prone to move up and down on downtube due to vibrations and impact. Put battery on battery base before attaching it to bike frame, switch battery on and you might have a problem. Judging by charred marks it already has been done before battery was shipped to me. I didn't open battery, but don't expect to find good quality components there.
May 14, 20241 yr Did you attempt to slide the battery on while the aluminium was in the wrong place? The connector is only live when touching the battery, so can't make sparks or burn unless you try to force the battery on in that position. The aluminium piece is always free to slide in those batteries. You should look further for the keys. They're always there somewhere, but not where you'd expect. Look in the charger box.
May 14, 20241 yr Author Did you attempt to slide the battery on while the aluminium was in the wrong place? No... I don't think so. The aluminium piece is always free to slide in those batteries. Really? I never seen anything like it before. ...but I admit I have seen very few. You should look further for the keys. They're always there somewhere, but not where you'd expect. Look in the charger box. Sadly no keys.
May 14, 20241 yr Massive, heavy, illegal and dangerous That’s what keyboard warriors said about mine. The illegal bit is true, 48v max, cop with voltmeter has you nabbed Difference being, mine was the most expensive thing I’ve bought for bicycle, more than my Giant dually, ready to convert, much more than motors. The only thing we need to spend money on, is batteries , 21700 changed the game
May 14, 20241 yr Author Massive, heavy, illegal and dangerous That’s what keyboard warriors said about mine. The illegal bit is true, 48v max, cop with voltmeter has you nabbed Why your battery is illegal? 21700 changed the game In what way?
May 14, 20241 yr Why your battery is illegal? Menotsure, perhaps misinterpretation of English law In what way? Only the bleedin obvious
May 14, 20241 yr Author Menotsure, perhaps misinterpretation of English law 48V is legal in UK. I'm not sure though what 48V. Nominal or maximum. Best to ask Flecc for clarification. Only the bleedin obvious Can you elaborate? I don't see any significant differences between batteries using 18650 and 21700 cells.
May 14, 20241 yr 48V is legal in UK. I'm not sure though what 48V. Nominal or maximum. Best to ask Flecc for clarification. Can you elaborate? I don't see any significant differences between batteries using 18650 and 21700 cells. Sorry, think capacity in w/hr /grams,
May 14, 20241 yr No... I don't think so. The connector is never live to make sparks and melt the metal like that. The only way that could happen is if it were in contact with the battery terminals at the same time it touches the aluminium.
May 14, 20241 yr Author The connector is never live to make sparks and melt the metal like that. The only way that could happen is if it were in contact with the battery terminals at the same time it touches the aluminium. Yes and it is very easy when battery is attached to base (not on bike yet) and power switch is on. Just bad design.
May 14, 20241 yr Yes and it is very easy when battery is attached to base (not on bike yet) and power switch is on. Just bad design. The batteries with tubular pins in the connectors are better, but they burn very easily if you connect the battery in it's switched on state.
May 14, 20241 yr Sorry, think capacity in w/hr /grams, The law doesn't limit capacity, only the weight your bike can comfortably carry and your wallet do that. .
May 14, 20241 yr Author The law doesn't limit capacity, How about voltage? I have seen somewhere that 48V is the limit. Would that make 48V batteries illegal (as they can be charged above 48V)? Or 48V limit is set on battery nominal voltage?
May 14, 20241 yr How about voltage? I have seen somewhere that 48V is the limit. Would that make 48V batteries illegal (as they can be charged above 48V)? Or 48V limit is set on battery nominal voltage? It's 50 volts, so technically a fully charge battery will exceed that. That is why some companies use an in between voltage, 43 volts in Wisper's case. But I think its worrying about nothing. The moment an EAPC comes under load the overvolts will disappear, returning when slacking off, so the mean voltage even when fully charged will be OK. The police have better things to do than organise dynamic testing of EAPC battery voltages and the couple of times they've tried similar they've come unstuck through inadequate knowledge. .
May 14, 20241 yr Bikes with 48v batteries (13S) have been certified as complying with EN15194, so they are allowed and legal. In the UK, there is no specific law that specifies a voltage limit. If you look at the info on the government site, there's no mention of voltage.
May 15, 20241 yr The law doesn't limit capacity, only the weight your bike can comfortably carry and your wallet do that. . I don’t think any of the keyboard lawyers would argue with that, My point was only that (Samsung) 21700 cells give you more w/hr per gram than 18650’s. Yes, wallet call but no going back once you know. Changed the game for me, my latest battery cost 75% of a complete Aldi ebike but takes me where I want to go. The other 25% spent on s/h cycles and a bit added for motor. One big fkr weighs an awful lot less than 2 of Op’s and goes 3x as far, what was the question ?
May 16, 20241 yr Google says 21700's are 300WH/kg while 18650's are 250W/kg. However, I see my Samsung 50E's are said to be 68-70 grams, while my 18650 GA's are 45-48 grams. Using the max capacity of 5WH and 3.5WH respectively, I'm calculating 260-280 WH/kg for both type of cells, no real advantage in weight, However, I have been able to get both cell sizes for the same price, so there is a big cost advantage for 21700.
May 16, 20241 yr For me 18650 is still king for my small 44v bottle battery builds , one simply can't do it with 21700 format. Otherwise 21700 format is the one for general battery builds or the nice 18650 Sam 35e3 or Moli's. Molicell is the chosen cell selected by UK venture EVTL / Vertical aerospace for their EV vtol aircraft , hoping they make the grade as have some £££'s riding on their success. Hopefully they get their #2 a/c flying for Farnboro and the share price can rise.
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