2013 BH E-motion Neos

[Deleted member 4366]

Just stumbled accross this when looking at Cyclamatics on Youtube.
A carbon Fibre one at 18kg with 10 speed rear cluster. A neat folder and a rather nice full suspension one. The present range are amongst my favourites, but these will give the Bosch bikes a run for their monejust hope that they're not to expensive.
BH Emotion Neo Electric Bikes at Interbike 2012 | Electric Bike Report - YouTube

 

[Eaglerider]

Interesting, they appear to have dropped all crank drive versions in favour of hub drive across the range for 2013 according to the chap in the video!

I rode the off road 650 with Panasonic power and the Xenion 650 with Bosch power. Really nice quality bikes, but I didn't like the Panasonic at all, the Bosch was much better, but my preference is for hub drive. I'd like a ride on that MTB version, very tasty!!

 

[firrrip]

Hi - I am new to electric bikes and have been looking at buying either the Neo Cross for £1900 or the Ave XH-3 for £1800.

The Neo looks great and, I'm told, has 3x pedal assist whereas the Ave has max 2.5 pedal assist but seemed a really quick bike when I rode it round the short course at the NEC.

I see that the Neo has had some mixed reviews on this site - has anyone got an opinion on either of these?

As for most newbies, I am pretty confused! I have lower back issues so I'm looking for somethng to get me up my local hills as easily as possible.

Thanks

Phil

 

[eddieo]

Phil you really need to try them......and compare spec carefully. I like the Bosch system as it pulls like a train and hill climbing excellent. In frame batteries look neat but could be problematic in the future.....

 

[GaRRy]

Cant comment on the AVE as have never tried one.

As for the NEO I own a NEO Cross and have in the main been very happy with it (had a couple of issues early on which were dealt with by bike shop/BH) and would have no hesitation on getting another one (the folder and new suspension mountain bike could be on my list). I think its hill climbing ability is excelelnt and as good if not better than any crank dirve bike I tried when looking for a new bike and I tried about 30 different ones (crank and hub) before decidng on the NEO.

IMHO most of the negative opinions on these bikes have been by people who have never even ridden one (or even seen in the flesh ??).

The one thing hard to totally disagree with is the in frame battery argument but as BH are a major cycle manufacture and have now introduce two more new models that use the same system I dont see this being much more of a issue than if say Bosch or Panasonic decided to pull out of market tomorrow.

BH have also promised that they will be able to supply batteries for at least 5 years after the ceasing of production of NEO bikes.

Having said that you really need to try and ride as many bikes as you can to see which one is best for you as whats right for me may be completely wrong for you.

 

[jerrysimon]

Nice looking bikes for which a lot of thought and effort has obviously gone into the design.

As highlighted though, you are pretty much locked into their battery replacement unless it is possible to re-cell them when the batteries fail in a few years.

Regards

Jerry

 

[eddieo]

I have not ridden one so cant comment on that. but when you compare the components they are very poor at this price point. Cheap shocks do not work well, and why would I pay so much for a bike with £45 shocks and £40 gear set when the competition have quality £200 +shocks and £180+ gear sets for the same money....

Then there is the elephant in the corner of the room.....battery replacement further on down the road

 

[tillson]

The bike looks great and probably performs well. However, as far as I am concerned, that frame integrated battery instantly makes the bike undesirable. The Panasonic and Bosch batteries, whilst being unique to their respective motors are used on an ever growing number of bikes from an ever growing number of manufacturers. The battery on this BH bike, I would guess, is produced in very small numbers which brings with is several disadvantages. High production cost, future availability and replacement cost being the most important. I wouldn't touch it for these reasons.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Neo looks great and, I'm told, has 3x pedal assist whereas the Ave has max 2.5 pedal assist but seemed a really quick bike when I rode it round the short course at the NEC.

I see that the Neo has had some mixed reviews on this site - has anyone got an opinion on either of these?

As for most newbies, I am pretty confused! I have lower back issues so I'm looking for somethng to get me up my local hills as easily as possible.

Thanks

Phil

That's about right. The best would be to try a Bosch and the Neo back to back. I did this at the Bristol show, where you could test them up Park Street, which is a pretty demanding hill. I would say that they were about equal on climbing power up there. Maybe the Bosch would have it on much steeper hills, but the Neo would win on medium hills. To me the Neo felt very user-friendly. Also, the simplicity of the drive system takes all the strain off the chain and gears, so should give longer life.

I suspect that that if it's true that BH Emotion have dropped the crank drives, it's because they know that the hub drive is at least as good as the alternatives and cheaper. The BPM motor in The Neo is capable of giving a lot more than what it's programmed for in the Neo, so, with clever software adjustments, I'm sure there's more to come.

 

[firrrip]

Thanks for all those replies - really helpful.

Has anyone on here actually driven the XH3 - or is it likely to be pretty similar to anything else with the Bosch drive?

GaRRy - what were the problems with the Neo, if you don't mind me asking? Is it a pretty quick bike?

Phil

 

[eddieo]

I have the AVE MH7 our second Bosch bike...unless you get a S class High speed version they should all feel similar, dependent on weight spec of bike etc.....

You can only glean so much from the internet..you need to ride to get a true compasrison

what do you want the bike for? XH3 mountain bike stylee...26 inch wheels. I prefer 28 for road use

 

[RobF]

Phil,

Bosch/crank drives are harder on transmissions than hub drives, which arguably reduce stress.

A fast rider is harder on transmissions than a slow one.

So if you are going to be riding your new bike quickly, best to avoid all crank drives.

 

[tillson]

Phil,

Bosch/crank drives are harder on transmissions than hub drives, which arguably reduce stress.

A fast rider is harder on transmissions than a slow one.

So if you are going to be riding your new bike quickly, best to avoid all crank drives.

I have been riding a crank drive for over 4 years & over 11000 miles. This has been over very hilly terrain and I am capable of a high rider input. There have been no problems with the Alfine 8 speed hub (appart from a short period of clunking / slipping which seemed to rectify itself). I have only needed to change the chain and sprockets once (quite recently) during that period.

It's false to say that you should avoid all crank drives if you are going to ride quickly. The statement is without foundation. You should make your decision based on which system suits you in the circumstances under which you will be using it.

 

[Old_Dave]

So if you are going to be riding your new bike quickly, best to avoid all crank drives.

And the opposite is also true

As with any cycling, chains, freewheels / cassettes are easy to replace consumable items.

IMHO the pros can be greater than the cons... but nuffing is for nuffing, no free lunches lol

 

[Kudoscycles]

Interesting, they appear to have dropped all crank drive versions in favour of hub drive across the range for 2013 according to the chap in the video!

I rode the off road 650 with Panasonic power and the Xenion 650 with Bosch power. Really nice quality bikes, but I didn't like the Panasonic at all, the Bosch was much better, but my preference is for hub drive. I'd like a ride on that MTB version, very tasty!!

We will have 2012 spec BH emotion bikes on big discounts very soon.
dave
kudoscycles

 

[GaRRy]

I Still think people are getting over fixated on in frame batteries.

Im not going to say it should not be considered but to me it should be a consideration for all ebikes not just those with in frame batteries. If any supplier stops production of a range of bikes and batteries you are going to have the same problem in frame or not with supplying a replacement as its not like all the not in frame ones are directly interchangable like a AA battery.

There are many different connectors,racks,controllers,specs,size,shape etc etc any which of which could make sourcing a battery from a alternative supplier very difficult (or at least for those of us who just want a bike that works with out modifying it).

What is important is how likely is it that the manufacturer/supplier will suddenly cease support of the specific battery you need and in the case of BH I decided the chance was fairly small (and there is always recelling to consider which is the same for all battery packs).

Should be interesting to see how easy it is to get a direct fit replacement battery for my urban mover in a few years time.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hi

I have to agree with Tilson, the battery in the frame made no sense if there was ever a problem.

They probably use standard cells that are readily available on Ebay. The sellers will even spotweld them into the same configuration for you. Should be simple to replace/upgrade as long as BH Emotion don't weld the battery case like laptop batteries. If these aren't them, they'll be similar:
for Panasonic CGR18650CH CGR 18650 3.6V 2250mAh 10A Power Battery Lithium Li-ion | eBay
By the time your battery needs attention, there will be even better cells available.

 

[eddieo]

Simply not true that Bosch cut out abrupt.. the early Bosch units suffered from this, but software was adjusted, latest ones do not. I know as have had both. Bosch bikes get far better reviews over on German pedelec then the impulse, far more popular with good reason..

 

[GaRRy]

GaRRy - what were the problems with the Neo, if you don't mind me asking? Is it a pretty quick bike?

Firstly on collecting the bike I discovered that the mount for the handle bar mounted controller was damaged and so not holding the controller as well as it should but was still usable and i was supplied with a new one within 2 days no hassle what so ever (although it took me a while to get it fitted by bike shop but that was for another personal issue rather than anything they did wrong).

The Second issue was that I ended up with a buckled rear wheel for no apparent reason by this I mean I did not hit anything or do anything that I am aware of to cause this. When this happened I was expecting a fight to get it replaced under warrantee (ie to for it to be implied it was my fault). However the BH Supplier (Maxtrax) agreed to replace FOC with out any hassle once I stated that as far as i was aware I had done nothing to cause it ti buckle. The only complaint I have about this was that it then took longer to supply the new wheel than I would of liked although to be fair it was not totally their fault with the first replacement getting damaged in transit then another being lost by courier before they finally got one to Bike Shop.

So while obviously it would be better if I had not had any issues at least the distributors seem geared up to deal with them and with out giving me what these days seems the usual run around to try and get out of dealing with the problem.

As for is it fast I find most of the time on the flat if I actually cycle (although not that hard as im a middle aged overweight desk jockey ) that i am pretty soon putting in all the effort in as the bike is travelling faster than the legal limit for assistance. I find it fairly easy to maintain 15 mph average most of the time including on mild slopes.

Also as I and others have stated if seems to fly up hills. I have never needed to use the lowest set of gears on the road and only the higher gears in middle set and thats usually because im being a bit lazy.

I really do recommend you go and try one.

 

[barrycoll]

I too have been looking at the AVE XH3 with a possibility of a purchase....after saving £20 a month for 10 years with one of those supposed quality "friendly" (ha-ha) societies), I have ended up with £2400 in my hot little hand...
...having done the maths, I now realise what a catastrophic savings plan this was, and just how much commissions and costs must have been.....on the other hand, if I wouldn't have put aside to 20 quid, I wouldn't have anything now!.....but Vodaphone shares might have been a better bet

so having tried an XH3 for a very short run, I am now trying to get my local dealer to get one from Ebco, but I am not sure that efficiency is the name of the game... I was promised one to try as soon as the NEC show was over, but that was a week a go, and nobody knows anything about it...so now it is said to be available in about another 2 weeks....somebody else must be having a go in the meantime

but in the meantime I have been looking at other websites, and taking note of Eddie's comments about quality of kit on a nearly £2k bike, and it is more bottom of the range than middle or top..

somebody on this site, imported a TKM Machina from Rad Sport Brucki in Austria paying "just" £1800 for a 2500euro machine, with quality kit....and the Haibike Enduro RC is also a bit more upmarket kit wise, but at £2,100 mail order from UK dealer...
...so it is hard to know whether the better quality kit will result in a better experience, or just a warmer feeling inside..
my cheap Tektro hydraulic brakes work very well on my present MTB, so would Magura feel any better...should do, but!
would better quality suspension forks 'feel' better on the usual broken UK road surfaces/towpaths/bridleways, but not uber-technical tree roots and broken rocks etc
my middle/low Shimano Deore front & rear changers be slicker with SLX (Haibike)

so it is hard to know, when the chips are finally down, and there is money available to actually put where your mouth is, just where value finishes and lust takes over....

and then there is the quandry of mail order, and fettle yourself, or put up with local dealer inefficiencies and have the possibility of back up......the elephant in the room. as it were, is the Bosch power system/battery, as the rest is just nuts and bolts and a bit of rubber, and any bike shop can help out

....so my present position seems to be a trial before I buy from an Ebco dealer (money back with no questions), and then more agonising about kit quality and dealer/no dealer, as it were...it seems as though buying a pricey bike is even more problematic than buying a motor, with even more options and permutations

but at least Eddie gives an total thumbs Up for the Bosch system, so that part is re-assuring...

aaggh well....watch this space

cheers barry -coll