10 days new and 10 years old. Happy me !

[KirstinS]

Today I picked up a 2006 swizbee e

bike. An utterly fascinating piece of ebike history. Arguably totally over engineered but, in my eyes, totally beautiful. It's on lovely condition and super rare in UK. I'd be suprised if there is more than a handful in the UK like this. If any !

And my twin boys have arrived, also utterly beautiful, out of Hospital safe and sound and now 10 days new


Today is a great day !

 

[KirstinS]

 

[kangooroo]

Sounds like congratulations are due on all three counts!

 

[flecc]

Congratulations on both events Kirstin, that bike has a brilliant motor and pedals transmission system. It might take a little getting used to to get the best out of it, but it's fast anyway.

Several years ago a member commuted daily into London with one, but I don't know what happened to it. Maybe it's your one! Long out of production of course, Michael Kutter who designed the system moved to IZIP in the USA and repeated it as the Dolphin brand, though in modified form. No idea if they are still made though.
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You jammy bar-steward!

I hope you can tell us a lot more about that bike.

 

[KirstinS]

Thanks all !

I don't know much real world yet. I'll come back to you there

I do know it is a 270w heinzmann motor mounted on the middle with a belt drive to that rather pretty red rear sprocket. The gears run through the chain on the right hand side. Both inputs feed into some kind of hub / differential to meld the power inputs. (Sorry, I'm no engineer so just my understanding)

The battery is lithium but no idea what ah or how degraded (works just fine but I'm guessing range very compromised compared to a decade ago)

The charger is actually inside the battery compartment ! Looks like a standard if chunky lithium charger )

I'll get into it once kids in bed , not even sure what voltage at this stage

 

[Deleted member 4366]

From the photo, the motor looks like one of those brushed scooter motorslike this one, but it's all fuzzy:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZY-MY-1016-Electric-Motor-24v-200w-Brushed-E-Bike-Scooter-24-Volt-200-Watt-Chain-/172153943111?hash=item28152cb447:g:g7cAAOSwFqJWr3Ep

It would be great if you had the fuel-cell version. It looks like hydraulic rim brakes. Do you have the Sram X9 gears too?

 

[flecc]

It is definitely a Heinzmann motor in the Swizzbee.

The rear hub is a differential used in reverse. The cassette drives one half shaft, the motor's belt sprocket drives the other half shaft.

The combined drive output appears at the crown wheel, which in this case is the hub and wheel itself.

Very clever idea, any proportion of drive from either rider or motor to give a balanced output. It's S class of course.
.

 

[KirstinS]

It would be great if you had the fuel-cell version. It looks like hydraulic rim brakes. Do you have the Sram X9 gears too?

Wow, they did a fuel cell version a decade ago? Why don't we all have those now ?

And yes, to sram x9

Has magura hydro rear rimbrake. The front disc caliper has been replace with a Shimano one (presume magura originally)

 

[KirstinS]

It is definitely a Heinzmann motor in the Swizzbee.

The rear hub is a differential used in reverse. The cassette drives one half shaft, the motor's belt sprocket drives the other half shaft.

The combined drive output appears at the crown wheel, which in this case is the hub and wheel itself.

Very clever idea, any proportion of drive from either rider or motor to give a balanced output. It's S class of course.
.

Thanks flecc, so does that mean if the rider puts in effort the motor matches it ? Or the less effort from the rider the greater the motor effort ? I think I'm asking if the relationship between rider side and motor side is inversely proportional or not ....I think ?!

 

[flecc]

There's no mechanical matching and I don't think there's any software matching either, but I've never had a chance to ride one to see how that works out in practice

The system basically means that you can use either your own and/or motor effort in any proportions to get the speed you want.

For example, in a car turning left, the left hand rear wheel has less far to go than the right so it turns slower. In a right turn it's the right rear wheel that turns less so is slower. It's the differential that allows the drive to both wheels to accommodate different turning speeds.

Now imagine using it backwards, turning both rear wheels to get drive at what was the input, making it the output. You could turn the wheels at different rates to get the same speed at the output.

So slow left and fast right to get a medium speed output, or fast left and slow right to get the same medium speed output, or just medium speed both wheels to get the same medium output.

In the Swizzbee the derailleur cassette is the right hand wheel and the motor belt drive the left wheel, so you can mix the inputs in the same way to get what output you want. There isn't the limitation you get with most crank drive bikes where the inputs from both you and the motor are tied together through the chain speed.

In essence you have crank drive benefits with the control freedom of a simple hub motor.
.

 

[Plasmadaddy]

Never mind the bike, huge congrats on the babies which are far more important!!!

Mines 11 days old today (baby boy, not bike!) so cycling is on the back burner for a couple of weeks!

 

[KirstinS]

So on a quick mission to get some late night shopping .....it's brilliant fun and rather fast !

But odd compared to hub or cranks I've tried. I think it seems to care about cadence the most but tbh I'm still quite confused and need to watch a few YouTube's about how car differentials work to fully understand fleccs post.

And ride some more

It did feel, well , slipply I guess on occasion when I went down into too low a gear. Something a bit like chain slip but in the hub/diff

Only happens when in, quite clearly, the wrong gear

 

[KirstinS]

Never mind the bike, huge congrats on the babies which are far more important!!!

Mines 11 days old today (baby boy, not bike!) so cycling is on the back burner for a couple of weeks!

Congrats to you too !

Of course more important

Just maybe not on an ebike forum!!

 

[Kenny]

Congratulations on the new arrivals Kirstin and Plasmaddy. Hope they are well and not curtailing your cycling too much.

That Swizzbee was one of the first electric bikes that fired my interest in pedelecs. That and the shaft drive Diavello, which never quite got off the ground.

 

[flecc]

But odd compared to hub or cranks I've tried. I think it seems to care about cadence the most but tbh I'm still quite confused and need to watch a few YouTube's about how car differentials work to fully understand fleccs post.

This is why I said you'll need to get used to it to get the best outcome. Once you fully grasp how a differential works you'll understand that the two inputs, yours and the motor, are actually trying to fight each other. Your effort is trying to turn the motor drive backwards and the motor is trying to reverse your effort.

But in fact the escape route for those efforts is to combine them into an output.

In my first post above I explained in the simplest terms compared with car differentials. Technically there is a difference in the Swizzbee but you don't need to worry about that.

All you need to understand about a differential is that it has three power connections. Rotation into one allows outputs from the other two at speeds which can differ from each other. Alternatively, rotation into two points at any speed of each results in an output from the third. The first way is how cars use them, the second way is the Swizzbee.
.

 

[KirstinS]

I've watched a few you tubes differential explanations . Makes sense now - you written versions were perfect but I guess my brain is quite visual - when I can see it then I get it !

Dare I now ask about the technical differences I just need to worry about ?!

 

[nemesis]

Today I picked up a 2006 swizbee e

bike. An utterly fascinating piece of ebike history. Arguably totally over engineered but, in my eyes, totally beautiful. It's on lovely condition and super rare in UK. I'd be suprised if there is more than a handful in the UK like this. If any !

And my twin boys have arrived, also utterly beautiful, out of Hospital safe and sound and now 10 days new


Today is a great day !

The designer must have been a clever guy and the original price,does anyone know it?

 

[flecc]

The designer must have been a clever guy and the original price,does anyone know it?

It was around £3000 at one point, very high for long ago. The later redesigned Dolphin version in the USA was similarly high priced, $3500 in 2010.
.

 

[KirstinS]

So, I've now had a good play around locally but not tested battery to empty.

You very much have to put some effort in and you wouldn't want to pedal without power for long. Its a tank, guessing 30kg !

The electrics are very complex and include a personal immobilizer code. Get it wrong 10 times and the bike is bricked until you go to a dealer to unlock it......and there ain't none of them no more !

Which means I'm terrified to swap the battery out in case the bike gets bricked. Will only try if absolutely necessary

The thing turns heads like nothing else.

Love it, only downside is the noise . The motor is a high pitched whine and decibels. Noiser than even a 36v bpm run sensorless and overvokted to 14s

Flecc was quite right (unsurprisingly!!) It takes some getting used to. It's all about cadence and the power up/down seems to vary the cadence required for max assist.