New old boy with a question regarding Quick Release wheel

[Gasman]

Hello folks. I've just had my second whole knee transplant and it's got to be time to get an electric bike, my knees click like a Castonet band. I'm considering putting a Yosi Power back wheel unit into my old Saracen Vantage bike. My question is this, my bike has quick release wheels, is it just as simple as as removing that wheel and dropping the new one in or is there more to it than that?

Many thanks

 

[soundwave]

might have to file down the frame so the motor axle fits inside the drop out

 

[saneagle]

Hello folks. I've just had my second whole knee transplant and it's got to be time to get an electric bike, my knees click like a Castonet band. I'm considering putting a Yosi Power back wheel unit into my old Saracen Vantage bike. My question is this, my bike has quick release wheels, is it just as simple as as removing that wheel and dropping the new one in or is there more to it than that?

Many thanks

Rear wheel motors generally slot straight in. If you're going to do a conversion, and considering the cost and effort, it would be best to do it to a suitable donor bike. By suitable, I mean that it should have disc brakes, a conventional bottom bracket and a suitable place to mount a standard battery. Such a bike can be had from local ads on Facebook, Next Door, etc for around £100 if your Saracen doesn't meet that description.

 

[sjpt]

Disc brakes are desirable but by no means necessary. Even with assistance it is quite likely you will be riding slower with the converted bike than you did prior to your knee conversion. A decent pair of V-brakes should be fine.

Also check Woosh as an alternative to Yose for the kit. Probably a little more expensive but exemplary customer service both pre and post sales. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits

 

[Gasman]

Disc brakes are desirable but by no means necessary. Even with assistance it is quite likely you will be riding slower with the converted bike than you did prior to your knee conversion. A decent pair of V-brakes should be fine.

Also check Woosh as an alternative to Yose for the kit. Probably a little more expensive but exemplary customer service both pre and post sales. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits

Thank you, yes you're right, I'm not about speed just something that will get me out and about with ease. Thank you for the link I'll check it out.

 

[Gasman]

Rear wheel motors generally slot straight in. If you're going to do a conversion, and considering the cost and effort, it would be best to do it to a suitable donor bike. By suitable, I mean that it should have disc brakes, a conventional bottom bracket and a suitable place to mount a standard battery. Such a bike can be had from local ads on Facebook, Next Door, etc for around £100 if your Saracen doesn't meet that description.

Thank you for your help. My Saracen doesnt have disk brakes but I'm not a speed freak, all I'm after is going at the same speed I used to peddle at before my knees were done. As for a conventional bottom bracket I'm not sure I'd know one if I saw it. But the down tube has got screws along it so I guess the battery would fit ok.

 

[thelarkbox]

fwiw im still pleased with my as is stock yose power rear wheel installation
The pas level speed control took a bit of getting used to.
The motor will simply accelerate at full pelt until the speed cap for the pas level selected is reached.
But once initial confusion (in my case) has passed, and you get familiar, it becomes second nature soon enough.

Just dont start pedalling for the 1st time in pas level 5 unless you want to be accelerated to 15mph asap and are braced for it..

 

[saneagle]

Thank you, yes you're right, I'm not about speed just something that will get me out and about with ease. Thank you for the link I'll check it out.

What you don't realise is how energy works. When you ride a non-electric bike, you might average around 10 mph. When you fit a motor, your average speed would increase because you'd have your own 100w pedalling plus 250w from the motor, which is nearly 4 times the power. let's say that your average speed increases to 14 mph. Energy (E) = 1/2 mass times velocity squared, so would increase from 1/2 x M x 10 x 10 = 50M to 1/2 x M x 14 x 14 = 98M, which is roughly double.

That energy has to be changed into heat by the brakes in order to stop you, so if your braking is about right with your bike like it is now, you'd need two sets of brakes on each wheel to deal with your new higher energy when you have the motor. The result is that the rim brakes wear out and go out of adjustment very quickly, they wear through the rim to cause catastrophic failure of the wheel, which we've seen many times on this forum and is just a matter of time before it happens, and the braking becomes inconsistent and unreliable. It's your choice!

If you only weigh 50 to 60kg, rim brakes might be OK, but not if you weigh anything near 100kg.

 

[Gasman]

Oh dear that does sound worryingly complicated, I'm afraid I bunked off school on the day we did sums. All I wanted was just to pootle along at a sedate speed without having to put a lot of strain on my poor knees.

 

[matthewslack]

Don't give up, you can pootle about exactly as you want to, and you can do it on your Saracen.

There is a bit more to installation than just dropping the wheel in, like mounting the battery and getting the wiring tidy enough. But nothing overwhelming.

You will get a better, friendlier riding experience with a kit based on a KT controller. That allows you to tailor how the bike responds, so you don't have the behaviour described by @thelarkbox. Others can fill in the details of where/what to buy to go the KT route.

You can manage with the brakes, but just like driving an older car, you have to ride within their limitations.

And of course because it is a kit, if you want to, in the future you can move it to a different donor bike if you feel the need.

 

[Gasman]

Thank you, that sounds just like the sort of thing I'm after.

 

[sjpt]

Oh dear that does sound worryingly complicated, I'm afraid I bunked off school on the day we did sums. All I wanted was just to pootle along at a sedate speed without having to put a lot of strain on my poor knees.

To come to the 14mph vs 10 mph argument Saneagle made the assumption that you had the motor at the full 250 power, and were still pedalling as hard as you did before you had electric. As long as you have a sensible controller and don't use high assistance level when on the level the first part of the assumption was wrong, and given you knee issues the second part of his assumption was wrong. So don't worry about the details of the argument or the conclusion. Instead ...

Don't give up, you can pootle about exactly as you want to, and you can do it on your Saracen.

 

[saneagle]

To come to the 14mph vs 10 mph argument Saneagle made the assumption that you had the motor at the full 250 power, and were still pedalling as hard as you did before you had electric. As long as you have a sensible controller and don't use high assistance level when on the level the first part of the assumption was wrong, and given you knee issues the second part of his assumption was wrong. So don't worry about the details of the argument or the conclusion. Instead ...

I didn't make that assumption. Full power would be around 400w. The thing is that everybody says I'm happy to ride around slowly, but that's because it's a real effort to go faster when you don't have a motor, but when you do have one, it's different.

Apart from that, we have to consider safety. Basically, you're advising the guy to compromise his own safety. What for?

I'm not so big on safety myself, but one thing I know is that I'd never use anything other than hydraulic disc brakes on my own electric bike. The difference in safety is immense and costs very little. The effort to build a bike is quite a lot. It's all very well saying if you don't like it, you can always upgrade later, but IMHO, for the small difference in cost, it would be better to get it right from the beginning and just do it once instead of going off half-cocked.

Also you advice the guy to spend an extra £50 for a KT controller, which would mean getting a kit much more expensive than a cheap Yose one. What's the advantage of that - a better pedalling experience? What's more important - a better pedalling experience or reliable brakes?

 

[thelarkbox]

Thank you, that sounds just like the sort of thing I'm after.

imho give your self a week or so with the stock yose-power kit, while i found it initially different from expectations based on m/cycle ridding once used the the nuances of power restricted pedal assistance are easy to live with and accommodate becoming 2nd nature.

You can source a KT controller that will sit in the same battery sled position as the stock yose power controller, However this will be a single voltage controller. While KT controllers in the more generic silver box format are supplied in dual voltage (36v and 48v) format.

Whats the big deal about dual voltage?? you may well ask?.. Well with a dual voltage controller you can use both 36v or 48v batteries to power your bike, and a 48v battery will provide you with circa 33% more power/torque and speed, though the speed is irrelevant due to the speed cap.. BUT if needed to climb hills the extra torque can be a VERY USEFULL UPGRADE/option.

However to take advantage of dual voltage capabilities a silver box controller that will require a further bolt on box or strap on bag to house it will be necessary.. An aesthetic issue that may or may not be a factor in the decision.

Fwiw while my yose-power kit was enroute to me i ordered a 36/48v KT controller and display.. And never fitted it to my daily ride.. Instead it was installed on e-bike #2 - yeah thats another thing that can happen, once you get 1 ebike, its not uncommon to start a collection

which ever way you go -- enjoy

EDIT ALSO.. avoid a heart attack and the need to wear brown trousers due to loud Bangs Pops and Sparks by ALLWAYS ensuring your battery is turned OFF when connecting to the bike/battery sled. -

 

[Gasman]

Thank you again for your help. I dont have any hills in my part of the country so they wont be an issue for me, gentle inclines and head winds are the most I have to deal with. I can well see how one could get very involved in the whole pedelec scene but for the moment I'll be content with just a bog standard kit I think.

 

[Raboa]

I have found that I had to file the sides and the bottom of the dropout, this required a second cut flat file and a 10mm round file
Grin technologies make the all motor which you can use without any modification.

If you don't file the bottom the height of the motor axle and anti rotation tab might be greater than the depth of the dropout. You also don't want the top of the anti rotation washer to sit level with the top of the dropout. You want to it to sit just below 1,mm 2mm. If you wheel spins out he can damage the dropout permanently and round the corners of the top of the dropout

All-Axle Hub Motor - Grin Products - Product Info

The All Axle motor takes the simplicity and robustness of the direct drive hub motor, and optimizes it for the modern bike platform. This hub is fully compatible with all quick release and thru-axle bike forks, it is over 30% lighter than standard generic hubs of similar power (4kg vs 6kg), and...

ebikes.ca

I wish all companies would follow this method

When I was filling the flats I put plastic shims behind file and over the dropouts to get a straighter cut.

Here's an example

https://www.screwfix.com/p/broadfix-assorted-plastic-shims-medium-100-pcs/99189?tc=DT3&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAlbW-BhCMARIsADnwasp70jfPxnjRKCCmaF89oqA6nxcfHPHMhnjEEbHHXco8rFiOUWHrE0YaApBgEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

You might be lucky and it will fit straight in, take your time if not, you don't need to take much metal off.

 

[harrys]

Like many others here, I've converted many bikes to electric. Tried various kinds of motor systems too.

My wife and I have ridden about 12000 miles together over the past 10 years too. We average 12 mph, although I ride faster on solo rides. I find rim brakes fine, although I do own bikes with hydraulic disks. While you and I and the neighbor's dog may ride slow, we have found ourselves flying downhill over 26 mph. Keep your bikes tuned up and able to brake safely in case that happens,

The comments about an uncaring pedal assist system boosting you to unwanted higher speeds are quite true. While you can get used to it, and I did on my first conversion, I'm also an advocate of the assist algorithms used in KT controllers.

 

[Nealh]

Any bike once it has an E in it should really have disc brakes , rims eventually will wear thru with the extra force needed to brake .

Several of us have been banging on about KT's for years now and slowly a few bitten the bullet and are in agreeance of how good they are .

 

[Sturmey]

Hello folks. I've just had my second whole knee transplant and it's got to be time to get an electric bike, my knees click like a Castonet band. I'm considering putting a Yosi Power back wheel unit into my old Saracen Vantage bike. My question is this, my bike has quick release wheels, is it just as simple as as removing that wheel and dropping the new one in or is there more to it than that?

Many thanks

Below is a bike I converted recently. I would say its possibly older that yours as it came originally with cantilever brakes which I changed to V brakes in the front and fitted a disk brake on the rear motor hub. I had to make a custom bracket/plate to accommodate the disc brake caliper and stretch out the rear chain-stays from 125mm (3 X 5 speed) to 135mm to accommodate the wider rear hub motor. The dropout needed no filing. The front v brake is ok in dry weather. The battery fits in a rear pannier bag for the moment......

 

[Raboa]

You can buy adapters like the one below, I have never used one so cannot say if they are any good or not.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Converter-Mountain-Maintenance-Replacement-Accessories/dp/B08HT115W9/ref=asc_df_B08HT115W9?mcid=2b53eed108873b8d9042d5b16dce16cd&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=707288977593&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2277207574620040671&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046953&hvtargid=pla-1176115180970&psc=1&gad_source=1