Uk Cycling Events Devils MTB 17th May 2014

[EddiePJ]

The next event in the calendar which is in less than a weeks time is going prove interesting with currently no bike to ride. I'm not holding out any hope that the BH battery will be back before the event, so with some reluctance I have decided that my only option is to use the hybrid Haibike. I have already ridden some of the course, and know that the bike isn't suitable, and have read that whilst cyclo cross bikes are actively encouraged, for this event they are not recommended.
I started to prep the bike last night, and have stripped off all the weight that I can, but it is still a hefty 2.5kg heavier than the BH. Even the OE side stand weighs 275g. It is certainly a lardy and heavy bike!
I swapped a few parts over from the BH, but have held back just in case. I also have a set of cyclo cross tyres for the 700c wheels on there way from Germany, so hopefully they will arrive in time. Tyres are often less than half the price of UK supplied ones, so it's always a no brainer when it comes to looking elsewhere to buy them.
The biggest issue with using this bike, are the dire OE forks. They are mediocre at best on the road, so off road use isn't going to improve the ride! I also suspect that most of the bikes extra weight is in them. The frame is also a bit on the large size, which is fine for road use, but isn't going to be so great off road. The Magura MT 2 brakes are also another aspect which don't live up to much, but there again, at least they will mean that I'll be going slower down hill, so hopefully won't wreck the wheels.
The last downer is that I suspect that the usual friendly welcome won't be so good this time with an in your face mid drive motor and external battery on display. Along with the louder motor noise, my usual stealth and unassuming bike approach, is blown big time. Hub drive and integrated batteries certainly help when it comes to being low key.
The one and only advantage that I can see from using this bike, is battery duration. At least that is where the Bosch scores.

Anyway, here are the event details, which I'll update again after the event.

http://www.ukcyclingevents.co.uk/events/devils-mtb/

Unless it proves too much for the bike, I have opted to do the epic route.



The video... This is the first year that this route has been used, so previous years event videos aren't available.

 

[RobF]

You will be well prepared, as ever.

The course would be too much for me, but doesn't look that challenging in mountain bike terms.

Putting on suitable tyres is very wise, other than that I think the Haibike will cope easily enough.

It will be interesting to hear the reaction of other riders.

My Rose is slightly noisier than the AVE, even though they both have the same model of motor.

I don't think there's anything wrong with either of them, so I reckon the sound of Bosch motors can vary.

For your sake, let's hope you have a quieter one.

Anyone who watches you ride for a bit will see that you can handle the bike and you are pedalling just like everyone else.

I think that's helped my acceptance into the group I go out with.

We were stopped the other day when a quietish kit ebike went past fairly quickly on throttle only.

A couple of my group commented "that's not proper cycling", yet they don't mind me on a Bosch bike.

 

[EddiePJ]

Thank Rob,

Hopefully the tyres should be here tomorrow, and I've already resided myself to the fact that the BH won't be repaired in time, so if nothing else, it'll be interesting to see how the bike performs.

It would have been nice to have better front forks, but we all managed without the luxury of suspension seemingly years ago, so I reckon that it won't be so bad.
It would have been nicer had the frame been smaller, but I can't do anything about that one. I'll just have to watch the crown jewels!

On the plus side of things, I'm 100% confident of the Bosch motor completing the ride without the concern of the battery running out, so that'll be a novelty.

I'm also very interested to learn about how the Bosch system feels in an off road situation. When I tested the route on the BH, some of the climbs had me puffing, so it'll be good to get an accurate comparison.

Ref the noise, one job that I did have to do a couple of days ago, was to sort out the Bosch popping noise that appears to plague them. It only took approx. ten minutes to complete, so I don't know why I just hadn't done it sooner. The bike is now back to sounding like you have a cricket/grass hopper along side you when you pedal, which I had oddly registered when I first got the bike, but never since. I'm sure that the wind up on the Downs will drown out any motor noise, or at least I hope so.

Your throttle comment is interesting, as when I first got into this, I liked the idea of the throttle, but I'd now frown upon it. Disabilities aside, even I would now consider it cheating/proper cycling. I also feel that if anything is ever going to spoil these events, it will be two things... Throttles and dongles. I have nothing against dongles, but in the spirit of these events, the potential for abuse is too high.

 

[EddiePJ]

The Schwalbe CX Pro cyclo cross tyres have arrived from Germany, and the weight saving over the original tyres is a massive 290g per tyre. It's actually quite noticeable on the front, and the bike feels much sharper. The narrow section is slightly worrying, but I'm sure that it'll be fine.
I must admit that I struggled to get the back wheel back in, so not sure what the issue was there that I was doing wrong. I can have the BH rear wheel and motor out and back in again in less than five minutes, but I was beginning to think that I was never going to get the Haibike one back in. I don't think that I'll be taking it out if I get a flat on the day.

edit... I have just been out this evening to make sure that all is okay, and I also wanted to try the tyres. They are amazing! They grip like mad, and I was trying intentionally to cross rut them to find their limits, and they are way better than they should be. I'm very impressed with them.

 

[jackhandy]

I use throttle pretty much exclusively when offroad - Only needing assistance on the Up bits:
It's pretty obvious when the gng motor cuts in, but no-one seems to mind, as it keeps me from becoming a rolling road-block on singletrack

 

[RobF]

The Schwalbe CX Pro cyclo cross tyres have arrived from Germany, and the weight saving over the original tyres is a massive 290g per tyre. It's actually quite noticeable on the front, and the bike feels much sharper. The narrow section is slightly worrying, but I'm sure that it'll be fine.
I must admit that I struggled to get the back wheel back in, so not sure what the issue was there that I was doing wrong. I can have the BH rear wheel and motor out and back in again in less than five minutes, but I was beginning to think that I was never going to get the Haibike one back in. I don't think that I'll be taking it out if I get a flat on the day.

edit... I have just been out this evening to make sure that all is okay, and I also wanted to try the tyres. They are amazing! They grip like mad, and I was trying intentionally to cross rut them to find their limits, and they are way better than they should be. I'm very impressed with them.

I thought the CX tyres looked a bit narrow.

But if you think what the 'genuine' CX lads can do, it's no surprise you've found they grip so well.

I'm guessing they would wear quickly if used for long on asphalt.

 

[EddiePJ]

Oh dear not a good ride.

I set out in the second group of riders to leave, but was quickly past everyone on the first 24 degree climb. and held this position out in front for about two miles, but was then overtaken, and this is where things went wrong. Someone had either moved the marker signs or they had not been set out properly, and myself and approx 100 other riders set off to ride an extra 8 miles wrongly. 4 miles one way and 4 miles back. Some riders did much further.
This was when the second disaster struck. A lovely snake bite pinch flat that wrecked the rear tube. Next disaster was that my dual fitment pump wasn't! Thankfully someone stopped to help.

The sram three speed rear up gave up at roughly the same time, and that is one design of gear change that is not suited to bumpy fast off road use.

Things started to go okay after this, except for nearly piling into the back of someone at an indicated 28mph! I had got into a bit of a down hill race with another lad, when suddenly we were both on top of a slower rider. How neither of us piled into him I don't know, but it made for some good banter when we got to the bottom.

The next disaster which spelt an end to my day, was two instant pinch flats on a very fast hard packed chalk and flint track. The impact of the flint burst both tubes! The organisers did say that the bike wouldn't make it, and had already advised no cyclo cross bikes.

I was then left with no option, but to start taking a short cut of approx 6miles back pushing the bike. After 4.5miles, someone kindly stopped and took myself and the bike back to the start.

Right the opinions of the crank drive. The BH with it's discreet look and hub drive, doesn't even raise an eyebrow. I have previously had a couple of friendly "cheating" comments at feed points, but today was very much different.
The organisers didn't seem overly impressed, and I totally lost count of how much abuse and negative comments that I got from seemingly everyone that I passed. Mid drives and their batteries stand out like a sore thumb, but it is the noise that really gives the game away.
Mid drive motors and organised MTB events do not go hand in hand. Shame though, as I was very impressed with it.

Overall distance completed was 28miles, which annoyed me, as it should have been nearer forty with the wrong turn.

I have also been quick to dismiss the Mt2 brakes, as being mediocre. Off road they are outstanding.

In the scheme of things I still enjoyed the day though, but others were less than happy and wanted a refund.

Photos to follow.

 

[EddiePJ]

I didn't really get much chance to take photos, so here is the only one of the Haibike.

And few official ones.

This is the lad that I had a bit of down hill fun with.

A few other photos from the day.

 

[RobF]

The organisers didn't seem overly impressed, and I totally lost count of how much abuse and negative comments that I got from seemingly everyone that I passed..

Oh dear, this accords more with my experience.

It's easy to say - especially on a forum - ignore the comments, but they do annoy me to a degree dependent on mood and circumstances.

Joshing or not, calling me a 'cheat' is akin in my mind to calling me a liar, something which I can't overlook.

I'm not a violent man, and might well end up on the losing side, but I can see one day a cheat comment will end in physical confrontation.

 

[EddiePJ]

Using the term 'cheat' is certainly an interesting one.

I'd love to know how you become a cheat when everyone is pushing their bikes up an exceptionally long and steep hill, whilst the e-bike rider (me) is struggling to cycle up it even under power, giving their all and reaching the top of the hill completely knackered and out of breathe. Everything in my body was telling me to stop, so I'd say that was commitment, not cheating!

I would also suggest that if those same people that called me a cheat, were to see just how much that I have struggled to walk and climb stairs today because of hip, knee and ankle pain, then they would have to eat their words. I was far from cheating.

I must admit that yesterday, I got to the stage where I couldn't even be bothered to turn my head to respond. It had become that tiresome.

The organisers yesterday also seemed pretty gleeful when I arrived back pushing the bike. The comment, amidst laughter was "battery run out?" They didn't reply when I said that I have just completed 28miles and still have a third of the battery power left, and that I'm pushing the bike because of two pinch flats that have destroyed the tubes. I couldn't hear what was said after that, as the music was too loud. I got to admit, that whilst I don't like the noise of the Bosch motor, the system is an extremely superb and efficient one.

Provided that the battery is back from Spain for the BH, I'm going to try an Evans Bikes event next, so we shall see what the reaction is then.

From speaking to the support mechanics, and other helpers yesterday that took an interest, and also from my conversations at the previous two events, I definitely appear to be the only person that they have seen/heard of, who is riding at these events. It'll be interesting to see if this changes over time, or whether people won't be as stubborn as me, and will just fold at the first bit of abuse. I'm in it for the long haul.

 

[amigafan2003]

I must admit that I don't like organised events like this - they always seem too competitive even though they aren't supposed to be and they seem firmly in the "sport" stable.

Mountain biking for me isn't sport, just like my snowboarding isn't a sport either. It's not a competition and I've nothing to prove to anyone else. Also, I don't like other people, so I'm happy with just myself for company when I'm out riding ;-)

My mountain biking is one of my recreational activities - like my walking and fishing - and you can't cheat at a recreational activity can you? ;-P

 

[Artstu]

I had a play with the long route Wiggle Tour of the peak riders today. Some are fine, others not so.

I would like to have a go one day, but I'm not up to even the shortest distance, and I'm not good with such early starts to the day. A 30ah battery would be handy too.

 

[EddiePJ]

Yesterdays event was definitely more competitive, although thinking about that, it probably had more to do with the fact that I went out with the first two groups who like me, just wanted to get going without being held up by family outings. Obviously this plan went tits up when we all went the wrong way.
Oddly, I was the only one not to be stressed about it. I just saw it as an extra 8-10 miles of fun riding.

The possible Evans ride aside, my next booked event is the 22nd June, but that will be very much different, as I shall be riding with a group of other people who have only just taken up pedal MTB riding, and the day will just be about having a laugh. I just hope that my battery is back by then.


Artstu, I could well imagine that the road bike fraternity would be a hard bunch to please. Fair play to you for that one.

 

[Artstu]

I passed about 40 riders up one hill, then sat at the top to give them a clap and some encouragement some looked the other way when they got near.
If I do ever get well enough to do an event I'd have to not go any higher than Tour setting to stand any chance of going the distance, that should mean me not passing too many, so less chance of getting any digs.
I went out again later today, and the riders were still coming, a full four hours behind the leading riders! but then again 111 miles is a rather long ride.

 

[EddiePJ]

Not the most flattering of photos.

After the first climb, with no others anywhere in sight.

Chain off and doing just a fraction over 28mph. The SRAM connector to three speed hub has also popped off.
When I pulled the bike down yesterday afternoon, I was quite surprised that many of the rear wheel spokes are also now pretty loose.

 

[stevieb]

great photo,s and thanks for sharing.
i get the cheating comment when cycling to work so i know how annoying it may be to e bike users.
my reply is usualy along the lines of i now do more distances and ride everyday instead of every other day.
i could see the argument against using an ebike in a competition if you were winning every race and lifting the prize,s but as you are out for a ride enjoying yourself then i don,t see any problem.
you may even open peoples eyes to the world of ebikes.
amongst the many spectators there may be folks who would love to ride a bike but think they can,t because of some health or fitness issue and after seeing an ebike in action may embark on a life changing decision to get one.
so keep on doing your thing and ignore all the negative comments as there will also be positive ones as well but maybe not voiced as loudly.
sportive events are supposed to be non competative with no prizes for comming first so these may also be an option.
or how about ebike races where non assist bikes are also allowed?