Storck Raddar Multitask...some observations

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Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
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Swindon, Wiltshire
I was a bit reluctant to take on this task. I was being ask to give an opinion on a stripped MTB, no mudguards, no carrier and at the end of one of the wettest years since records began. Suitably encouraged by the sight of a bottle of Famous Grouse on the end of a stick, I agreed to take charge of this machine for the duration of the Mid-Winter hols.

Two very big wheels and some tubes to keep them apart.



Never riding beyond the end of my road without a puncture repair kit, I fitted a mini front pannier and a pump wrapped in foam slung under the crossbar. A cam-on-a-stalk was mounted on the steerer and a GPS unit to the stem....and off we went.

I chose to ride my Northern loop, which consists of Tarmac pave throughout and included two hill climbs. I think this would be classed as "moderate" terrain.

Lady Lane, ½ mile climb, 12% at the steepest point.
Blunsdon Hill, ¾ mile climb, 18% at the steepest point.

A few more stats: Rider: 74 kgs, 69 years-of-age. Temperature: 8°C. Wind: W-N-W gusting to 24 mph.

The first thing to do when starting the ride, find the power level best suited to my needs. I found the second of eight segments on the variable power control gave me an electro-human ratio of around one-to-one.

A little more about the stepless power selector. Basically, it's a thumb throttle with the return spring removed. The moving part is divided into nine white segments ( eight + zero). The fixed reference point is just a raised arrow, and it's very difficult to see...even in daylight. I would imagine those riding at night might prefer a positive click-stop for each segment. In the event of "getting lost", they could push the paddle right up and then count the clicks down to their preferred assistance level. This is important with just 277 watt-hours in the tank and a very hungry motor.

The example provided had a 17" frame, two sizes too small for me. The result of which my feet kept moving too far forward on the pedals, but I managed to get reasonably comfortable. As with all short wheelbase machines, it scores highly in the "swervability" stakes. I've ridden in strong cross-winds many times, but every time I passed a gap in the hedgerow, I felt the front wheel twitch as the stiff Nor-Westerly slammed into it.....big wheels have an equally big sail area! Not to worry, the taut-as-a-bowstring frame and big wide handlebars easily maintained control.

Powerful hydraulic brakes like the big 185's fitted both ends deserve some respect, grab too big a handful and you'll be viewing the world from a different angle.

Sweet, quiet and positive shifting as expected of the Deor gear-set. During the ride, I only needed the top seven gears, but I expect some may find a use for the other twenty. Cruising on the flat at 17 mph, I found 26th best suited to my utility style cadence. Top gear proved a little too "tall" for riding within the assisted speed. At first, I thought top gear would be useful for riding beyond the assistance ramp-down at around 17.6 mph....but this proved to be wishful thinking, as I will explain later.

Of all the electric bikes I have ridden, this is one of the quietest. It is of course a direct drive motor. The absence of any internal reduction gearing being the reason for the absolute silent operation. It really is very enjoyable riding at seventeen mph with nothing more than the patter of tyres on Tarmac, and the occasional click of the shifter to interrupt the peace and quiet. Unfortunately, there is a price to pay for this silent operation.....as I found out further along the route.

And now we come to the first negative, the recuperation system (regen). A method of recharging the battery on-the-fly. And the rider of a Storck Raddar has absolutely no control over this function. It cannot be switched off....you're stuck with it. It works like this: At just over 17 mph, the assistance tapers down and immediately the system enters regeneration mode....and it's like hitting a brick wall! Prior to starting the ride, I picked up a few tips on the internet on how to ride through the regeneration phase. no matter how hard I tried, I simply could not find enough leg power to ride beyond 18 mph.....the retarding force of the regen was too strong to overcome, even on downslopes. I can think of a far easier way to charge a battery, like using the charger supplied.

Quotes from the owners manual:

"The drive assistance is provided until the maximum permitted speed of 15 mph (17.6 mph actual) and gently stopped beyond this speed. From 15 mph (17.6 mph actual) upward the drive switches to recuperation mode"

It then goes on to say:

"Please note the following. Do not exceed a maximum speed of 28 mph when riding downhill. Otherwise you run the risk of blowing the fuse in the recuperation system. This is particularly acute with the electric assist system switched off. Replacing the fuse can only be carried out by a Storck dealer."

Finally it advises.

"Do not make long downhill rides with a fully charged battery. You run the risk of blowing the fuse of the recuperation system"

Well, I have a better idea, give the rider the option of switching the regen system off.

The 12% slope of Lady Lane presented no problems for the drive system. What was now needed, was something a little more challenging, so continued the gentle climb up the back of the escarpment to the top of Blunsdon hill, there, plunging down it's steep face to the bottom and turning to climb back up. Bearing in mind I needed to keep the speed below 28 mph to avoid blowing some fuse or other, I checked the speed at 27.4 mph with the brakes. So why didn't the regen system check the speed for me? Well, it only works if you are pedalling. And it's no good just turning the pedals, you have to pedal hard enough for the torque sensor to react and switch to regen mode at 17.6 mph. And just when you think "sod this for a game of tin soldiers" and stop pedalling, off goes the regen and gravity sucks the speed back up to the point where it might just blow the living daylights out of the regen system. Every cyclist I know, considers freewheeling down a steep hill, and coasting along the flat at the bottom as "leg-resting" time. The implementation of regen on this machine is counterintuitive and illogical.

Let's have a look at a far more sensible way to incorporate regen into an ebike.

The Bionx system has a hall switch which attaches to either the front or rear brake lever. When the rider wishes to reduce speed, just a slight pull on the switched lever activates the regen (Regenerative braking). If the speed fails to wash off quickly enough, the rider selects a higher level of regenerative braking force on the control panel. If the rider selects the highest level, the retarding force is very strong.....and not a single bit of wear on the brake blocks or disc pads. In my personal opinion, controllable regenerative braking is the only sensible way to use a recuperation system on an ebike. Nuff said......I have a hill to climb.

As with any hub-motored bike, the lower "foothills" were stormed up at a very respectable speed. As I approached the 18% section, I nudged the power level up to maximum...and then I discovered the "cost" of that silent motor. I'm afraid this crumbly old codger could not muster enough pedal power to keep the road speed above 7.5 mph....and the direct drive motor fell out the bottom of its power band and left me struggling. Of course I had to get up the hill to get home, so dropped a couple more gears and slugged it out. Once the gradient started to ease, the motor quickly redeemed itself by coming back into its power band and joined in with the fun. The machine then accelerated quickly up through the gears, at the same time I nudged the power level back down to two segs up from zero...I still have a lot of
miles to put under the wheels.

Based on my average consumption of 11 watt-hours per mile, I had predicted I would have a flat battery at around twenty-five miles. At 21.3 miles I had to pop home to answer the call of nature. Suitably relieved, I checked the RED,AMBER and GREEN LEDs on the handlebar display...all still lit. I then checked the LEDs on the battery, three of five still glowing brightly. Closer examination showed these three lights were in the "empty" section of the bar-graph alongside the lights, but how much energy was still in there? I took some photos for the record and stopped the GPS recording.





A couple more snippets from the owners manual.

"With average terrain and load the expected range (per charge) varies between 25 to 37 miles"

Erm, in the advertisments it claims 30 to 62 miles?

And another one.

"With five LEDs lighting up on the battery, your battery is fully charged. With one LED lit on your battery, it is almost empty."

Really?, when I was pedalling it home with a stone flat, bone dry tank, there were still three LEDs on the battery gleefully suggesting otherwise! (I will come back to this further down the page)

Part two to follow, please wait.
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
Part two

I had a fiddle about moving the GPS unit to a different position, and then, overcome by curiosity, set off to completely empty the battery. The assistance started to soften after just one more mile, two more miles further and the battery was completely drained. And still, three LEDs on the handlebars blazing away like Blackpool illuminations. Got off the bike and pressed the button on the battery, again, three LEDs solidly lit....but the battery was as flat as a pancake. I didn't bother to take photos, there was no point, nothing had changed! Note: This additional ride is not included in the video.

Conclusion: The three LED handlebar display serves no useful purpose other than indicating the system was active. In short, there is a complete absence of any State-of-Charge reporting to the rider of this machine. The five LED battery display is possibly incorrectly calibrated. However, I believe the battery display may be of the "fuel gauge" type, in which case, having completely flattened the battery it may have reported differently on a second ride. Unfortunately, due to other commitments and the weather, I was unable to carry out a further test. Be assured, this is not a faulty example of the marque, in fact, the very reason I was asked to accept the mission was to confirm similar behavior on another Storck Raddar machine.

I would like to think I have been fair in this report. I simply do not have the words in my limited vocabulary to praise this machine enough where deserved. Setting aside the illogical way the regen is applied, and the shortcomings of the State-of-Charge reporting, the machine rides, steers, brakes and climbs moderately steep hills with the precision of a Swiss watch....but it doesn't share the versatility of a Swiss Army Knife.

I would be very interested to hear any comments by other Storck Raddar owners regarding their opinion on the points I have raised. If the comments include range per charge claims, I would appreciate GPS reports to support them. Some excerpts from the video footage below.

About the video. Both cams recorded at full 1080 HD, but I have now had some thoughts about this. There is no point in recording vids destined for YouTube in full 1080 HD quality...YouTube reduces them to 720p. Another problem, at full HD the lens angle is reduced, and requires very precise aiming of the cam to get both horizon and handlebars in view. For footage destined for showing on an HD TV directly from a PC, the cams will be switched up to full HD.

Uploading to YouTube took four hours. As usual, YouTube detected shake and offered to stabilise the video. Well, sooner or later I had to see what the results of this 'stabilisation' were, so for better or for worse I agreed to the video being processed in this way. This process took another three or four hours. At the end of which I decided I prefered the original, and clicked on the 'undo' button. The stabilisation process had all sorts of weird effects which I felt spoiled the video. I much prefer the native footage....warts an' all.

And I'm still not very clever with video editing either. I'm still using 'Windows Movie Maker Live'. Anyway, enjoy your 'armchair' ride on the Storck Raddar Multitask!

Best watched at 720p, select this with the 'cog' symbol on the YouTube task bar.

....you'll have to excuse the sniffing....the dreaded cold weather drippy nose syndrome.

All the best
Bob

[video=youtube;kwniCrB5TQI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwniCrB5TQI[/video]
 

rog_london

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2009
764
2
Harrow, Middlesex
Thanks for all the detailed info!

However, what can I say other than that clearly the thing isn't worth a wink if you can't exceed 28mph without blowing a fuse - replaceable or not. One of the greatest bits of fun you can have on a bike is to be at the top of a steep hill and just let it go - and I regularly do that and get to 40mph or maybe a little more.

Not that I was thinking of buying one. They appear to be well made and they look 'the business' but they're not cheap and watching posts on here support is a bit thin on the ground.

Rog.
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
Hi Blew it,

Was there any magnetic drag from the motor when not using assist?
Yes, there was some resistance when pedalling home without power. As always, the first thought was "wang it over the hedge and get a taxi home". But of course that wouldn't be an option with a loan bike. It was slow-going and I don't think I got above 10 mph.

Obviously I am an E-biker at heart, and although I don't need a throttle I still do not like riding without assistance...but sometimes we have to just to prove a point. It was a good "impact" training exercise getting it home. :D

All the best
Bob
 

rog_london

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2009
764
2
Harrow, Middlesex
True, membership of the 50+ club would be out of the reach of a Storck Raddar rider. :eek:
Maybe AFTER you've blown the fuse.....!

That's one of the better videos. The camera aim was spot on. That's the most difficult thing to get right as you can't tell until after your ride. Well done.

Rog.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Great video.

We moved from Swindon 12 years ago to Cambridge. Spent many weekends at Lydiard park when my girls were young.

I liked you polite riding style.

Regards

Jerry
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
On my brief on the flat test ride I just found the system weak especially in comparison to Bosch, have never really understood the hype about these bikes

Much stronger direct drive motored e bikes around and some with a wide choice of batteries and all 36v
 
Good Morning,
Thank you Bob for your interesting report. I can make an assumption that this bike was loaned to you by your local Storck Dealer in Swindon, is this correct ?
I would like to clarify a couple of your points:
Bike 2 sizes too small: This of course will effect the way the bike bike handles and, more importantly you pedaling position. There is no way you will have been able to get the correct pedal stroke (seat height) if the bike is 2 sizes too small. This will seriously effect your pedalling efficiency. 'Grumpy old codger' or not. The Storck Multitask is not a 'Mountain Bike' as quoted (mountain bikes have different seat and head angles, and geometry dimensions) The Multitask is a Markus Storck City / Commuting designed frame. The Raddar system was designed to fit this frame. 4 frame sizes are available, so not a 'One size fits all' frame.
How Regen works on this system Just to clarify here: The regen works on freewheel only. What you are experiencing at over 15mph is the regulation speed limiter kicking in. Not the regen. The speed limiter is required to work at 25klm hour +/- 10% . This was working correctly on the bike.
Riding faster than 25klm hr When ever we take customers out for a demo ride, we go through a number of points so that the owner gets the best experience from their Storck Raddar Bike. One of these points is to explain how the torque sensor and speed limiter works. (Sorry, we do not write these speed limit laws, we just have to abide by them). When the rider gets to a speed of around 25klm hr the torque sensor in the rear axle does not allow any more assistance to the rider. This is sometimes described as trying to ride through treacle. No matter how hard the rider pushes (or mashes) the pedals at this speed, the system simply will not allow any further assistance over 25klm hr. Its doing its job correctly.
The trick is to (fool) the torque sensor with your cycling cadence. The system was is by Markus Storck who is a keen cyclist (for keen cyclist) who understand how pedal cadence really works and can change pedalling efficiency. At 25klm hr, if you would like to travel a little faster, you simply drop down a couple of gears and use very light pressure on the pedals, increase your cadence (spin you legs faster) and you can balance the torque sensor with your cadence. If you are not used to this, it takes a little time and technique, but it works. We always demonstrate this with customers on tes rides.
Regen relay and overspeedThe regen system is designed to work ONLY when the bike is freewheeling. (How often do we get asked the question 'Does it charge itself whilst you are riding' ? ?) Whilst the bike is coasting on the flat, or freewheeling downhill the regen is working. So that the battery is not getting overcharged when freewheeling downhill, the system has a stage of (insurance). The first stage at around 30 mph freewheeling downhill, to prevent the battery overcharging, the system will 'trip' a relay. This will be noticeable at the bottom of the hill when the rider tries to get assistance again. A simple on/off at the controller will re-set. This has been updated from the original fuse.
Hill climbing Again, the way the torque sensor is designed in the Raddar System, the best way to get a smooth hill climb assist is a very light and high pedal cadence. Not mashing the pedals Bob, on a bike that is 2 sizes too small for you. We demonstrate this to customers on all our test rides and they instantly see the benefit of the lighter / higher cadence technique.
BatteryIt appears the bike you were testing did not have a full (charge / discharge) cycles before you tested it. We recommend the battery is fully charged / discharged for a number of cyles from new to offer maximum range. This will proved a much longer range than you experienced.
ControllerThe 3 leds on the Thumb controller are just an On/Off indicator. No more, No less. The very first thumb controllers provided more information to the rider, but was very confusing, so Storck decided to make it a very simple On/off switch. The battery condition leds are on the side of the battery.
I trust this all makes sense, and if there are any further questions or points here from owners and enthusiasts, please do not hesitate to ask.
Kind Regards,
Ian.
 
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RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
The Storck looks to me like a £300 mountain bike with a badly engineered Bionix kit slapped on it.

Enthusiasts on here do a better job - at least their bikes pull properly.
 

Cakey

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 4, 2012
287
3
Being a Storck owner. I tend to agree with some of bobs points.
The 3 LEDs on the display only show whether the unit is drawing power , hence the red amber green on the flat , flashing to red on hills. It does show a basic battery gauge after say 15 miles.
For me it's been a very reliable bike for 12 months with over 7000 miles on it, apart from a very annoying creak which myself , dealer , supplier are struggling to find. Before you ask I have swapped basically everything .
Is it better than a £1000 ebike. Compared to the brashness and reliability of some of my other ebikes.
Yes it is . Fanboy no, as I believe it does have a few areas of improvement.
Would I buy another ? possibly if they make the changes.
Also note that mine does not have a speed regulator.
 

Geebee

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 26, 2010
1,256
227
Australia
That speed limiter is insane, I would on and average ride exceed 30 mph maybe ten times, there are 3 rollers on the last 2 km on my way home from most rides that would each exceed that, so I would have to turn the controller off and on in time for the next hill but after I had slowed to below 30 mph. It beggars belief.
(Edit) I just realised it will be more than ten times as the same 3 rollers work both ways :)

The referenced article re how to pedal it does not seem to match the description that Tappy gave in his previous post "it's easy to achieve the cut-off so rather than being swiftly assisted, you're more likely to be constantly jumping past the cut-off, meaning you're hauling a heavy bike around. Better to drop down to a slower cadence and let the bike do the work."

Tappy's post "Hill climbing Again, the way the torque sensor is designed in the Raddar System, the best way to get a smooth hill climb assist is a very light and high pedal cadence. Not mashing the pedals Bob, on a bike that is 2 sizes too small for you. We demonstrate this to customers on all our test rides and they instantly see the benefit of the lighter / higher cadence technique."
 
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Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
....Is it better than a £1000 ebike. Compared to the brashness and reliability of some of my other ebikes. Yes it is .
Thanks Cakey. Yes, the Storck Raddar is a beautiful machine to ride, seductively so. There was a lot of standing water still lying around, so I finished up with a very wet behind and some strange smelling 'mud' up my back and in my hair. Believe me, when I say it was a thoroughly enjoyable twenty miles...then I mean it. I would like to think this is reflected in the video.

The ride was the easiest part, the ten hours slogging over a red hot video editor being the hardest. In the video, apart from mentioning the motor dropping below its power band on Blunsdon hill, there is nothing derogatory in the captions. The video is correctly titled to aid Googling, and is there for all the world to enjoy.

.....and Storck Raddar UK get all that lovely publicity....FOR FREE :rolleyes: :D
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
323
the Cornish Alps
Hi Bob,
That's one of the smartest reviews I've read: Pretty much all the Relevant info's in there & I'll definitely not be lusting after one of these any more.

It seems to fail on just about every reason for me to ride an ebike - mainly getting my carcass up hills, without inviting heart-failure, and letting me enjoy swooping down t'other side..... and on..... and on :)

Off topic - Did you know Adobe Premiere video editor is available as a free download at the moment?

Go to Hotukdeals & you should find it as their "Deal of the week".

There's some debate as to the morality of the "deal", as Adobe seem to have cocked up, but have now accepted the situation.

If you have problems finding the download, let me know.
 
Hi Bob,
That's one of the smartest reviews I've read: Pretty much all the Relevant info's in there & I'll definitely not be lusting after one of these any more.

It seems to fail on just about every reason for me to ride an ebike - mainly getting my carcass up hills, without inviting heart-failure, and letting me enjoy swooping down t'other side..... and on..... and on :)

Off topic - Did you know Adobe Premiere video editor is available as a free download at the moment?

Go to Hotukdeals & you should find it as their "Deal of the week".

There's some debate as to the morality of the "deal", as Adobe seem to have cocked up, but have now accepted the situation.

If you have problems finding the download, let me know.
But that is Exactly what it does do....and some. Ask David Miall from Wisper and any other e-bike brand manager who has ridden one and have the experience to comment.
Plus the countless reviews written by Cycling Journalist around the world.
[removed]
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
The trick is to (fool) the torque sensor with your cycling cadence. The system was is by Markus Storck who is a keen cyclist (for keen cyclist) who understand how pedal cadence really works and can change pedalling efficiency. At 25klm hr, if you would like to travel a little faster, you simply drop down a couple of gears and use very light pressure on the pedals, increase your cadence (spin you legs faster) and you can balance the torque sensor with your cadence.

...

Hill climbing Again, the way the torque sensor is designed in the Raddar System, the best way to get a smooth hill climb assist is a very light and high pedal cadence.
The gear drop / increase spin technique also works with the Impulse crank drive near the assist speed limit (and I'm pretty sure some others)... both uphill and down - downhill, more spin, less pressure giving similar results to gearing up and sustaining pedal cadence. Or maybe that's already above assist limits (can;t remember).

It sounds on reading this that the bike rides a bit like an 'intelligent' crank drive unless I've misunderstood ?

But isn't the very point that users get frustrated with having to adopt this approach when they want to sustain speed on climbs, and few people are going to elect for a heart-racing spin on a downhill when they can achieve the same with a gear change unless they genuinely want a workout ?

What I still can't get my head around yet is how this bike rides above power assist limits. I dropped a couple of kilos of cargo off my bike yesterday (so loaded weight with rack bag and "stuff" dropped to 34kg) and it sustained 20.5mph on the flat with a bit of help from the higher gears, 18mph on gentle hills. It'll also crack 30mph easily on the downhill (don't have enough straight runs without enormous potholes and blind hairpins to want to risk it at speeds greater than that but I'm sure it'll crack whatever speed the conditions safely allow within reason - and more weight is not a bad thing on a downhill sprint). I'd definitely not want a bike imposing a top limit on unassisted speed.

A key point, surely, is that when you ramp up pedal cadence significantly, regardless of a light touch, your fatigue levels increase very significantly. It's the fastest way to get your heart rate soaring. Great if you want to burn 1000 calories a hill in a spinning class but you can ride like this on an unmotorized bike without the extra weight to contend with ?

The ride was the easiest part, the ten hours slogging over a red hot video editor being the hardest.
You did a really good job of that. How did you mount the camera and which one did you use ?
 
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