New KTM eStyle P 2014. Review news from KTM.

[LEBC Tom]

Some recent news from KTM world wide about their eBikes. Some of this will be German language, because they simply test and review more eBikes than anyone in the UK.

We will have some UK reviews soon, so will update as soon as this happens.
Here is the a review of the 2014 KTM eStyle P. This bike is available now.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.730098453682963.1073741853.200160223343458&type=1

The words in the review might be German, but the results are clear.
Europe’s leading e-bike magazine “ElektroRad” tested several e-bikes focusing on their climbing qualities.

Result: Highest reach/ range and highest efficiency for KTM's e Style P !

If you require more details please don't hesitate to contact us at the London Electric Bike Company, we will be pleased to help.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

So the hub-motor beats the crank-motor on climbing and efficiency!

That'll confuse a few people on this forum.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[trex]

there may be a logical explanation.

The results for BionX, Winora, Hailbike, Maxcycles seem plausible but the Raleigh's looks decidedly strange. Battery not fully charged may be?

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Like this bike, my bike is the eTour which is almost exactly the same but with Magura HS11 brakes. The bikes certainly flies as well!

 

[Streethawk]

How steep were the hills? I'm thinking they were not in excess of 15%

 

[trex]

About 20% on average on the uphill section. All the bikes are given the same route, rider + bike = 100kgs, batteries charged to full. The race continues until the batteries run out.

From Regenhuette, they set off for 6.7km on fairly flat ground to the bottom of the mountain (800m altitude) then climb up to Arberseehaus (1000m altitude), the steepest section is 25%. Most of the weak bikes die here. Only the KTM with Panasonic motor carried on to Bretterschachten (1200m altitude), the average gradient is around 22% on this section.
The KTM with the Panasoni is the best by far.
Very impressive.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I have not tested my bike to that degree but I have been very impressed. You touch the pedal and it flies

 

[Streethawk]

Interesting, i'd like to try the mountain bike version up the Calderdale valley trails, any ebike that can manage the gradients there would be something i'd seriously consider.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Streethawk.

I live in Pudsey and work in Delph so if you fancy getting in touch we can meet up and your more than welcome to test one of the KTMs on the local hills. On or offroad I'm us you'll be impressed.

 

[Geebee]

I suspect with a rider with low human power input a crank drive will climb steeper hills than a hub, having said that I would be interested in testing the afore mentioned hub one day.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

About 20% on average on the uphill section. All the bikes are given the same route, rider + bike = 100kgs, batteries charged to full. The race continues until the batteries run out.

From Regenhuette, they set off for 6.7km on fairly flat ground to the bottom of the mountain (800m altitude) then climb up to Arberseehaus (1000m altitude), the steepest section is 25%. Most of the weak bikes die here. Only the KTM with Panasonic motor carried on to Bretterschachten (1200m altitude), the average gradient is around 22% on this section.
The KTM with the Panasoni is the best by far.
Very impressive.

Hi Trex...

can I ask where you got this information from? We thought it was just a translation from the review. But its actually more than the magazine published. We're interested to know where this came from.

Many thank.

 

[flecc]

So the hub-motor beats the crank-motor on climbing and efficiency!

That'll confuse a few people on this forum.

Odd results like this are common with pedal assistance, the presence of variable rider inputs confuses the issue. As you know, there's a tipping point with hub drives where a rider doesn't have the strength to keep the motor in an adequate revs region for a climb. At that point the same rider could usually continue the climb with a crank drive. By the same token the rider can greatly affect the overall efficiency, both from their relative strength and their riding technique.

When we get human cloning such tests may start to become valid.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Odd results like this are common with pedal assistance, the presence of variable rider inputs confuses the issue. As you know, there's a tipping point with hub drives where a rider doesn't have the strength to keep the motor in an adequate revs region for a climb. At that point the same rider could usually continue the climb with a crank drive. By the same token the rider can greatly affect the overall efficiency, both from their relative strength and their riding technique.

When we get human cloning such tests may start to become valid.

That's very true, but you would've thought that the magazine would've commented on that. I can't believe that they had a vested interest in promoting the Panasonic and Bionx motors over the Bosch.

I personally believe that there's a misconception about crank-drives being more efficient than hub-motors in all-round conditions. Each has an advantage in specific conditions, but it's not as simple as saying that crank-drives are more efficient climbers, because they're not. Instead it depends how well the motor and drive system are matched to the exact conditions that they encounter.

I have two bikes with the same battery and controller. One has a 350w crank drive and the other a 500w hub-motor. On the same relatively hilly ride at the same speed, the hub-motor uses less amp-hours, or it can complete the journey a lot faster with the same amp-hours.

It was the same when I took a 250w front hub-motor, and converted it to a crank drive. It could climb steeper hills without pedalling than when it was a hub-motor, but I couldn't go any further on it - in fact the distance was less.

There's so many variables that affect battery consumption, with speed and how hard you pedal as probably being most significant, which makes it very difficult to pin down which are the real winners. In the end, I don't think that it's important. The only important thing is whether you have enough battery to complete your journeys while putting in the effort that you feel comfortable with. The rest is academic.

I hate it when people make sweeping statements like,"crank-drives climb better", or "crank-drives are more efficient", because they're simply not true. It's true that some crank-drives can climb better than some hub-motors in some conditions, but the opposite is just as true.

I'm still waiting for a try on that KTM Panasonic to see how good it is. I'd love to try it on my routes so that I could give it a direct comparison. I missed it at Redbridge and couldn't make the Manifold event. It wasn't at Bristol nor the Cycle Show, so, hopefully, it'll be available to try in the next round of events.

 

[flecc]

I fully agree Dave, it just isn't a simple matter of one being better with so many variables in play.

It does seem from the few reports that the new rear Panasonic motor is rather special, especially in climb ability, which if true would seem to undermine their crank drive systems. I can't understand their intentions with bike motor systems following their long established crank drive, first trying front hub motors, then front hub with regen only, then front hub with electrical brake and regen, and now the rear motor. Not much sign of a clear vision of the way to go, and very confusing for bike manufacturers.

 

[Streethawk]

Streethawk.

I live in Pudsey and work in Delph so if you fancy getting in touch we can meet up and your more than welcome to test one of the KTMs on the local hills. On or offroad I'm us you'll be impressed.

Pretty close to me, i think i'll have to take you up on that offer

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

nice one, well as soon as we get some demo ones in, I'll send you a message.

 

[103Alex1]

Pretty close to me, i think i'll have to take you up on that offer

Be great to hear your verdict especially as against Endeavour .

 

[trex]

Hi Trex...

can I ask where you got this information from? We thought it was just a translation from the review. But its actually more than the magazine published. We're interested to know where this came from.

Many thank.

The ride map is in the review article, you only have to input the addresses into google to get the elevation profile.
The test starts with a warm up 8km on flat roads and a mountain test.
In the mountain test, the mountain course is 11km long, 557m elevation (about 5% gradient on average) but at a dozen places, the gradient is more than 10% and some places as high as 22%-25%.
The testers tried to keep speed on the low side to get the best performance.
By the way, the KTM Panasonic is ridden by the younger tester and the Impulse + NuVinci Harmony by the older guy. Total bike + rider = 110kgs.
My personal experience is that crank drives are definitively better on 8% + gradient.

Here is the route:

 

[flecc]

By the way, the KTM Panasonic is ridden by the younger tester and the Impulse + NuVinci Harmony by the older guy.

Just the sort of potential problem that occurs on e-bike tests. We really do need batches of human clones to get reliable results from such tests.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Old or young, look at the calf muscles on them. I think if we did the test, we'd get slightly different results - like all of them conking out before we get to the steep bit.