I don't normally like flat pack, but....

[EddiePJ]

On this occasion I am making an exception.

The cock up with the invoice over the off road Haibike, then a thread by KTM over the launch of a new bike, made me halt in my tracks and have a rethink of what I actually wanted a bike for. Since making the changes to the BH, it has now become a very good bike to ride. I still think that the quality is crap and that there is no longevity to the product, but in the 'short term' I'm happy to continue as I am.
One thing that I have had a hankering for is a bike that will allow me to commute both fast on and with ease, yet give me a decent road range of 50mile plus, and still remain light, agile and fun to ride.
This is asking quite a lot from any bike, then I spotted a new 2013Haibike EQ Cross on German Ebay. I put in an offer and got it for £1,500.00 Given the spec this seemed okay to me, and after four days it was sitting at home waiting for me.

And today was the maiden trip. 42.7 miles with half the battery capacity still showing.

I've not ridden a crank drive before, and I'm left with mixed feelings about it. Obviously I'm not going to judge anything until living with the bike for a good few months, but compared with the silence of a hub drive, the noise of the motor compared with a hub drive is very pronounced, I also had to work much harder to maintain anywhere near the same assisted pace of the BH with it's hub drive.
I also feel that Bosch are pulling a sales stunt in relation to the amount of power settings. The lowest ECO setting should be scrapped in favour of making Tour the ECO setting.
One interesting thing that I did notice when comparing the crank drive to hub drive, is that when using hub drive in assisted mode, you instantly drop two gears when turning assist off. With the crank drive this doesn't happen, which is nice.
The Bosch display console is very nice to use and is hard to fault in anyway.

Yesterday when I unpacked the bike and saw the Shimano SDD3 rear hub, I was kind of disappointed. This disappointment was forgotten with the first gear change today. I have to say that every change was super smooth and silent, and whilst I thought that I wouldn't like SRAM, I now think that it's superb.

The bike hides it's weight incredibly well, and is a pleasure to ride in unassisted mode, and progress can be made very quickly indeed. The bike felt very much faster than the BH, but there is a conflict; when I checked my average speed etc after the ride, the average speed was nearly 4mph slower. Which is very odd given that I only ever use ECO mode on the BH, but used Tour and Sport on the Haibike. Some of this might be down to my riding style today, as I didn't know what to expect from the battery life, so perhaps didn't use as much assisted mode as I maybe might have done normally.

Now for the tyres. These are fantastic. According to the spec sheet they are Schwalbe Marathon Modial, but I haven't checked this. They roll brilliantly, run silently, and road grip is very confidence inspiring. The ride on the wet and muddy cycle way was also just as much fun. I like a lively feel from a tyre, and these deliver that.

The brakes are very good rather than superb, but they are new so I don't expect them to make the bike stand on it's nose.

Speaking of standing on it's nose, the forks are adequate but have sadly add much weight to the front end of the bike. This is one area that I might think about changing at some stage, but I don't think that there are any forks out there to suit. That is me just being picky, and is no way a reflection of the product.

I had written much more but lost it, so I'll add to this at a later stage. The main thing is that I'm still smiling.

The mud is only from the cycle way, and I don't intend to kill this bike by using it on anything other than on the road, and light cycle paths.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thanks for your comments. I look forward to seeing what you think after a few more rides when you've figured out how to get the best out of it. Your findings so far very much reflect my own. It's nice to get a comparison between a hub motor and crank drive of similar power over the same rides.

 

[RobF]

Welcome to the wonderful(ish) world of Bosch assist.

I agree eco is all but pointless, I use sport most of the time.

Turbo seems a bit peaky to me, particularly at slow speeds.

I also agree the system is not 'fast', which suits me but might not some riders.

A dongle will give you easier access to 15-25mph.

I like the Bosch's authentic bicycle power delivery, rather than hub drives which can feel more like a moped.

When you ride a Bosch, you get a similar feel for the terrain as you would on a normal bike.

For example, the long drag up on the Coast to Coast path from Sunderland to Consett feels just that - a long drag - because with a Bosch there's no resting, you have to do your bit on the pedals to get the motor to perform.

The system is noisier than the quieter hub drives, but I think mine quietened down a bit with use.

And it can't be that noisy, because I am still apparently inaudible to most pedestrians.

Going back to your bike, what sort of gears does it have?

You mention Shimano and SRAM in the OP, but I can't quite grasp it.

 

[Geebee]

Was the BH touque driven or PAS?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It has a torque sensor and a speed control controller

 

[EddiePJ]

Going back to your bike, what sort of gears does it have?

You mention Shimano and SRAM in the OP, but I can't quite grasp it.

Sorry Rob, I wasn't very clear on that.

I should have said that I have not owned or ridden a bike before that used SRAM gear components, and I had previously read very mixed reviews.

I have to say that I really liked it. I'm also very impressed by how smooth that the SDD3 rear hub is for gear changes. Again I had read somewhere that it can be very clonky. Having said that I try to predict the required gear for hills before I tackle them, so I'm never having to shift under heavy load. I still need to take a look to see how to remove the rear wheel though.

On a negative note, we heard what sounded like a gun shot last night, and when I went into the workshop this evening I was greeted by the BH having fallen onto the Haibike after this happened.

I'm just glad that I wasn't on it at the time.



.

 

[RobF]

At the risk of appearing dense, has it got one of Sram's three-speed hub/derailleur combined systems like this:

http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/sram-dd3-27

If so I wonder if it counts as hub or derailleur in Bosch-speak when it comes to how much max assist you get.

 

[EddiePJ]

At the risk of appearing dense, has it got one of Sram's three-speed hub/derailleur combined systems like this:

http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/sram-dd3-27

If so I wonder if it counts as hub or derailleur in Bosch-speak when it comes to how much max assist you get.

At risk of confusing myself as well, that is exactly what the bike has.

The right hand trigger has bar side has two lever, one for up and one for down. The left hand lever control the three speed, so eliminating the need for a front mech/derailleur. The internal gearing appears to be pretty much perfect for my riding.

As a system I really rate it, or so far before having to remove the rear wheel.

 

[D C]

On a negative note, we heard what sounded like a gun shot last night, and when I went into the workshop this evening I was greeted by the BH having fallen onto the Haibike after this happened.

I'm just glad that I wasn't on it at the time.



.

What the heck happened there?

 

[Backin5]

Same thing happened to my inner tube - it exploded a couple of miles after fixing a puncture. I was waiting behind a bus in the middle of town when it made a huge bang and blew out. Rear wheel.

Anybody know why? It was on 45 - 50 psi I think.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

When they go bang, it's normally because you didn't have the tyre on evenly. you should always put a few PSI of pressure in, then check round the tyre and manipulate it to be concentric with the rim. There's normally a guide line of some sort. Finally, pump it up after you get it concentric.

If the tyre just goes down quickly with a ig hiss, you've probably got an overlap in the tube, or the rim-tape is damaged, or whatever caused your original puncture hasn't been removed.

 

[D C]

d8veh's post is spot on.
Just to add that I have the same tyres as Eddie (2.1 Panaracer Fire XC Pro tyres) and have found them to be a noticeably slacker than usual fit to the rims.
A couple of months back when I was fitting them to my new bike I must have nipped the inner tube between rear wheel rim and tyre, a real rookie mistake though I thought I was taking my usual care.
The tube popped out at the side about ten minutes after inflation to 45lbs and as the wheel was still on the bench I saw (and heard) exactly what happened.
Bright side is I now have lots of small rubber bands!
I refitted a new tube very carefully and checked the seating several times whilst inflating, hundreds of miles later they are OK.
I've never had folding tyres before and though they are easier to get on and off I wonder if the soft beading compromises the fit a little.

 

[Croxden]

I had a bang at 25 mph with the front tyre full of Slime. It didn't work... neither did the mud guards.

 

[jackhandy]

EEAAUUGH!

 

[Backin5]

Great responses chaps, many thanks. I suspected I'd done a sloppy job, and have been very careful on future repairs.

I think putting a bit of air in the fresh tube helps it to seat a little better, but I'm struggling to get 60+ psi out my old hand pump. Time to splash out on one of those Calos Fandango jobbies.

Enough of this anyhow, how's the bike doing Eddie?

 

[EddiePJ]

With ref to the blow out, I think that it could only have ever been a pinch flat, but I just found it odd as I'm always very careful about partially inflating the tube first before installing it, then once fitted, I push the side wall in slightly all of the way around from both sides, and bounce the tyre gently on the ground, again all of the way around. I guess that I just didn't do it well enough.

Now for the Haibike.

Three words sum it up function over fun.

It's very good for my intended use of commuting distance at a reasonable rate, but it does nothing at all to excite me. This is in big contrast to the BH. I've been checking it over in readiness for next weekends Wiggle ride, and Just sitting on it, and riding it up the driveway had me smiling like a fool.

I also think that my heart is firmly fixed on hub drive, something which might change over time, but not as yet.

The frame finish and ride on the Haibike are both superb, but there are two issues in relation to paintwork.
Firstly the paintwork on the wheels is the worst that I have ever seen. The paint looks to have been applied over dust. The second issue in relation to paintwork, is that the threaded lug holes have not been cleaned out, so I was not able to put bolts into the lugs for the rack. Obviously this was easily by re cutting the thread, but it's still annoying. On the plus side to this, no paint chipped off from around the lugs, which is more than can be said about the BH.

Both wheels are like this all of the way around.

Sadly now set up for commuting duties.

 

[103Alex1]

Now for the Haibike.

Three words sum it up function over fun.

That's what makes me giggle a bit about Haibike pricing ... there's little to excite me in all but the most expensive models and I can't help thinking you can do so much better for a commuter bike.

If you're anything like me, you'll last a matter of weeks before craving a speed cut-out over-ride and an adjustment in the power delivery profile. Luckily with Impulse, the latter was possible via the dealer Service Unit in 2013 without having to change the bike simply by changing the settings to 'Sport profile'.

The former was also possible using the same and combined, the bike was transformed at no extra cost. I think with the Bosch systems you have to buy a "performance model" and a dongle, which together add about £500+ to your bill.

But I still consider the Kalkhoff my "training bike" (incongruous though that is with its looks) - getting it to perform demands that I "make an effort" and stay fit. The hub motor conversion is a pleasure to ride, whatever stage of fitness I am (or am not) in at the time !

 

[SRS]

Eddie

Try a dongle, the bike will become the bike it should have been in the first place.

 

[Artstu]

but it does nothing at all to excite me. This is in big contrast to the BH. I've been checking it over in readiness for next weekends Wiggle ride, and Just sitting on it, and riding it up the driveway had me smiling like a fool.

I take it that it is the power delivery that does that to you? and not just the way the bike feels?

A trapped tube isn't actually a pinch flat, that's when a obstacle compresses the tyre to the rim and pinches the tube, you get two punctures, also know as a snakebite.

 

[Artstu]

I take it that it is the power delivery that does that to you? and not just the way the bike feels?

Any thoughts on this yet Eddie?