Full Suspension or Not?

I'm looking at purchasing a Full Suspension Emtb, but the last full suspension bike i rode about 10 years ago was very bouncy & uncomfortable to peddle on gravel tracks & tarmac. The latest models that i've been looking at usually have three settings one of them being Firm. Would this setting give me a decent ride on the flat similar to a Hardtail?

if it has decent forks and shock then it will be air and you can add or remove it to stiffen it up and then use the lock out for on the road.

 

you just need a shock pump.

I'm looking at purchasing a Full Suspension Emtb, but the last full suspension bike i rode about 10 years ago was very bouncy & uncomfortable to peddle on gravel tracks & tarmac. The latest models that i've been looking at usually have three settings one of them being Firm. Would this setting give me a descent ride on the flat similar to a Hardtail?

I know what you mean about the old school full suspension being bouncy. It was basicly a coil spring and nothing to provide dampening. Today's ebikes with full suspension are a completely different animal with some great setups on offer. Most will adjust to very stiff or lock out altogether to give a hardtail experience. Two examples I am familiar with are both Haibikes. The Fullnine SL is equiped with Suntour suspension while the Fullseven All Mountain RC is fitted with Rock Shox units. Great kit.

Edited November 22, 20169 yr by Emo Rider

As a recent concert from HT to FS I would go FS .. having done the research my view is that the more you spend on an FS bike the better it is. I find that my emtb with the sudpendion set to soft doesn't give the uphill bobbing unless I stand up, which I don't!

If your budget will stretch to the Scott Genius range they have a remote 3 stage lockout applied by a small lever on the bars which was the deal breaker for me. This feature may be on other makes but I didn't come across it.

Owning both a hardtail e-MTB and full suspension e-MTB, my go to bike is the hardtail and the full suspension is hardly being used at all any more.

I keep question my self whether I even need a full suspension, and I am still considering possibly selling it.

 

In line with my current servicing of both bikes, I'm also in the process of removing the remote lockout on both bikes and replacing with manual change. Riding through winter months, just wrecks the remote cable long term, and has done on all three bikes on an annual basis, and each have been replaced on several occasions. I also don't exactly consider it an effort just to change the settings by hand. Doing away with the remote cable and switch, also removes yet more unwanted clutter from the handlebars.

 

Where hardtails score is that they are...

 

• easier to wash, keep clean and maintain.
  
• With no rear suspension, there is zero bushes/bearing to wear out, and no annual rebuild.
  
• In the case of one brand, no bolts to loose and have to replace.
  
• No rear shock to have rebuilt every X amount of hours.
  
• Cheaper to maintain given the above points.
  
• They weigh less, and this point is certainly valid when a climb becomes too steep or wet to to ride up, or you have to lift the bike over a gate etc.
  
• There is zero squat from the rear end, something that even locking the suspension on an FS bike doesn't give.
  
• The zero squat allows for faster sprinting up smooth steep inclines, and with total efficiency.
  
• You also know exactly what the rear wheel is doing, and going to do.
  

Obviously a full suspension bike has advantages, but for me, I'm not sure that for those four months of the year when these advantages can be taken advantage of, that it is really worth it. Time will tell, as having two bikes, with two differing options is a nice feeling.

 

I have to concede that full suspension certainly does make for a more comfortable 'plush' ride, but that isn't particularly something that is at the top of my list of priorities.

 

Even that minor gripe can be sorted to a degree with something like a set of Ritchey WCS grips and a saddle such as a Ragley Tracker.

Edited November 24, 20169 yr by EddiePJ

skip to 16.20:eek:

I suppose that if you are a rufty tufty, he man, out in all weathers sort of bloke then a hard tail will bring enjoyment, but for an active pensioner who has had a lifetime of back bending let me tell you that a full sus bike is the bees knees..

skip to 16.20:eek:

I Like your suicidal approach to roundabouts at about 18 mins!

I don't know about over there, but where I live, used full suspension mountain bikes are the best deal in Ebiking. So many folks go out and spend $1K or $2K(or more) on a MTB, take it out to find out how much work it is and park it.

I look for good quality models 4 to 8 years old that have been sitting in a garage and I never have to look very long.

Here's the latest example I just bought;

 

'07 GT Idrive 4 4.0. The guy payed $1K for it, rode it once off road and parked it in his garage for 8 years. Then he decided to ride it to work, put nice street tires and tubes, rode it twice and decided he didn't like that either.

With 29" and 700 cc wheels being all the rage these days, nobody seems interested in bikes w/ 26" whl.s and when I responded to his ad, he jumped on my offer of $450.

Made in Taiwan, this was an entry level model, that frankly, I could trash in short order off road, but on the street the 4 inches of travel and mech. discs are awesome. And the welds and paint are first class.

If I was to go back to motorcycles, I wouldn't eschew a modern Japanese bike for a Harley hard-tail and I don't dismiss modern bicycle technology because of dogmatic thinking.

And all that nonsense about the extra maintenance and parts wearing out is just that. Maybe if a guy is putting on many 1,000's miles a year. But how many here do that?

Edited November 30, 20169 yr by motomech

FS for me, having only just made the change after 30 years of hardtails. Even if I were just using it for road and towpath use I would still use FS and will never go back to hardtail now. It just makes my rides so much more enjoyable due to the comfort. I did try a suspension seatpost (Suntour NCX which I still have) prior to the FS which helped a lot, however its not a patch on even a mid range FS setup. Its not like weight is even as issue these days, my FS frame was only 16oz heavier than my hardtail. The relatively cheap rear shock I use (Fox Float RP23) has adjustable rebound damping and pedalpro switching which firms it right up when needed to prevent bob, but to be honest I never turn it on as I am rarely out of the saddle. The overall ride is simply bliss, I would never have believed that even small stones are smoothed out by the suspension and with the rebound set right, bounce isnt an issue whatsoever. I honestly cannot wax lyrical enough about FS but as Eddie has stated, they are not necessary for everyone by any means.

And all that nonsense about the extra maintenance and parts wearing out is just that. Maybe if a guy is putting on many 1,000's miles a year. But how many here do that?

 

To say the above, you appear to have no knowledge or concept of European riding conditions, particularly during winter months.

 

Either that, or correct and regular maintenance isn't high on your list of priorities.

 

Nonsense, it isn't.

Edited December 1, 20169 yr by EddiePJ

To say the above, you appear to have no knowledge or concept of European riding conditions, particularly during winter months.

 

Either that, or correct and regular maintenance isn't high on your list of priorities.

 

Nonsense, it isn't.

I think that I, although still new to FS, am tending to agree with planemo here and to put my thoughts into perspective I see Ediepj as being at the very sharp end of extreme off road riding with such as myself sailing along in much calmer waters and my bike usually comes home reasonably mud free. In fact it is probably wasted on me but I do like the ride.[emoji56]

We have FS and hardtail bikes, but the hardtails are redundant as they just don't do the business when things get tough (the WTB i23 rear wheel on our Canondale SL1 collapsed on the kind of landing you wouldn't notice on an FS bike). On our FS bikes, all suspension bearings are changed once a year whether they need it or not, which takes a couple of hours at most and forks/shocks serviced at 30 hour intervals throughout the year, another couple of hours labour per bike...so, for us, the extra work required to keep a FS bike running sweet is nothing compared to the peace of mind offered when hammering down a rock-strewn slope...2k+ miles on my S-Works Enduro this year, not one of them on tarmac and it's seen snow/ice/rain/mud/sand/dust/etc, so it's not like it doesn't get used;)

I/we couldn't even consider a hardtail for the riding we do! We go out on average every 3 or 4 days taking in lots of xc trails and mtb centres. Being bad back sufferers our rides would be limited to every 2 weeks at the most, having to have time to recover if we had hard t's. The fs rides the bumps and jumps better as well as the comfort. If I was 10 years younger (the wife and me are 60+) I might be with Eddie on this one but these modern air suspension beasts are something else!

Just re read the OP. I think for the extra cost and maintanance, if you're not doing serious off road riding go for a hardtail with a sprung seatpost.

Edited December 2, 20169 yr by chris130256

im looking at my first ebike.... but i have (in bits) an old dawes edge full suspension which i used to ride years ago. quite high spec with air suspension front and rear.... whilst super comfortable they can be tiring to ride as a lot of pedal torque was lost through the suspension, ie the harder i pushed the pedals the further the suspension compresses, even if i pumped it up quite hard which it turn loses the comfort..... things have moved on in through the years to combat this but you'll never defeat it.... i think the point i'm trying to make is unless you want the bike for serious off roading then i'd stick to a hard tail or spend real good money on a high spec well reviewed full bobby (as i call them)..... my apologies if this has already been posted in some way or form, haven't read all of them, just my experience

ie the harder i pushed the pedals the further the suspension compresses, even if i pumped it up quite hard which it turn loses the comfort..... things have moved on in through the years to combat this but you'll never defeat it....

 

And theres the rub - 'combat' it they have IMO. I chocked the front of my Giant Trance and tried with all my might to compress the suspension with pedal torque alone. It didn't. Obviously things are different when out of the saddle and body weight is moving vertically but thats what PedalPro/lockouts are for.

 

Pedal bob isn't a consideration these days. Extreme light weight, nimbleness and an ability to climb steep, repetitive hills whilst out of the saddle might be valid points for a HT but for mere mortals like myself (and many others I suggest) I am struggling to think of a good reason not to go full sus other than cost.

Yesterday I went for a "road" ride on my FS MTB and paid particular attention to the "Bobbing" at no time was I out of the saddle nor was the suspension locked out.

My route was particularly hilly and bumpy and when climbing a 22% gradient with the bike in Turbo and in lowest gear there was no bobbing sensation at all.

At the other end of the scale I came down a 20% gradient cobbled twisty road at 25MPH+ under reasonable control and could have gone faster were I a bit braver!!

Would I swap for a hard-tail?

Absolutely not!

Was the extra expense worth it?

Absolutely yes!

I am concerned we might accidentally stray into the e bike cheating arena by suggesting that you dont need a full sus bike unless you are going extreme biking.. I stress accidentally here...

Not exactly e-bike experience here, but one of our regular Thursday riders stuck firmly to his "I don't need rear suspension!" mantra for years, with his old school XC bike. He blamed his many crashes on everything except the bike. One week, there was only he and I going out, but his rear wheel had collapsed after ignoring one too many broken spokes, and was in dire need of some new drivetrain. I offered him my old Patriot to ride, which was too small and too softly suspended for his size, but at least had wheels and gears. He bought a full suspension bike a few days later, rather than spend money repairing the XC bike. He now crashes less, has gained confidence, and speed, to the point where he is now contemplating longer travel and more aggressive style trail bikes.

Then I let him ride my Levo.........

Mark

To say the above, you appear to have no knowledge or concept of European riding conditions, particularly during winter months.

 

Either that, or correct and regular maintenance isn't high on your list of priorities.

 

Nonsense, it isn't.

I have to disagree with you on that one, Eddie. My FS Rocky Mountain has now done 4000 miles in 2 years in all conditions with no maintenance other than cleaned twice, squirted oil on the chain about 6 times and replaced one broken gear cable.

 

Then there was that £5 FS bike that I knocked up 1000 miles on without any maintenance at all, nor cleaning, in January,even though it got covered in salt. It went through snow, ice and hail, and lots of rain.

 

To answer OP, You don't need FS for tarmac and light trails. FS gives a bit more comfort at the expense of efficiency. You can get the comfort from a hardtail MTB if it has air forks and a Suntour NCX seatpost. For racing down proper off-road trails, you need FS. As I ride mainly on the road, my next bike will have rigid forks, thin tyres and hardtail for efficiency and speed. You notice a big difference in speed/effort with such a bike once you get above 15 mph, so it cuts your journey time a lot if you have a long way to go. The closer your bike comes to a roadbike, the faster and easier it is on tarmac, but the more uncomfortable it becomes on trails.

 

If you like the motor to do a big proportion of the work, the comfort of a FS bike is a big advantage, but you need a battery that can give you the range you need. If you just want to get from A to B quickly and efficiently, a roadbike-type ebike would be best.

Just a quick point on cleaning.

Mine don't get too dirty but eventually need a wash down..

So which does more harm?

A dirty bike put away and forgotten about for a few days, or a cleaned bike that's still wet in all those hard to reach places that will stay wet in a garage in winter for those same few days.

Salt is hygroscopic and can be very corrosive, so it's always best to remove it. Normal dirt is just cosmetic, and of course a weight penalty. It'll clear itself from anything that moves.

Its also fair to remember that not all FS bikes combat bob as well as the next. Full on downhill bikes couldnt give a stuff about bob and only need high quality, long travel, efficient, easily servicable setups. I have to say I think Giant have nailed it with their Maestro setup but it doesnt mean all other XC/trail linkages work as well to remove bob. Gubbins, out of interest what bike do you have?

Its also fair to remember that not all FS bikes combat bob as well as the next. Full on downhill bikes couldnt give a stuff about bob and only need high quality, long travel, efficient, easily servicable setups. I have to say I think Giant have nailed it with their Maestro setup but it doesnt mean all other XC/trail linkages work as well to remove bob. Gubbins, out of interest what bike do you have?

Scott e-genius 910.

Not the cheapest of offerings and I don't know how the suspension components differ from those on cheaper bikes .

ACF50 is a good thing to apply if using the bike and then not cleaning it straigh away.

 

It prevents salt corrosion (just in case they've gritted)..