DFT consultation on increase of 250W limit to 500W

as here

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/29/ministers-to-consult-on-doubling-the-legal-wattage-of-electric-bike-motors

just to summarise

consultation only

increase of 250W to 500W

Throttle allowed

motor cutoff remains at 15 mph (ish)

ANyone know any more??

"Another significant aspect of the consultation is the potential reclassification of e-bikes. Currently treated as bicycles, e-bikes might face a reclassification to motor vehicles if the proposed changes are implemented. This shift would necessitate registration and licensing, altering the very nature of e-bike use in the UK. The Bicycle Association warns that this reclassification could endanger the e-bike's status as a universal mode of transport, a move that could have far-reaching implications for manufacturers, users, and the burgeoning e-bike market."

https://bnnbreaking.com/transportation/uk-considers-doubling-e-bike-motor-wattage-despite-safety-concerns

"Another significant aspect of the consultation is the potential reclassification of e-bikes."

That is not what is written on DfT web page.

"

Proposed changes

The government proposes 2 changes to existing regulations:

• to amend the legal definition of how EAPCs are classified so that the maximum continuous rated power of the electric motor must not exceed 500 watts instead of 250 watts as set out in the current regulations
  
• to allow ‘twist and go’ EAPCs to have throttle assistance up to 15.5mph (25km/h) without the need for type approval
  

The proposed changes would require the government to bring forward statutory instruments to amend the current regulations. Pending the outcome of this consultation, the government would propose to lay this secondary legislation in Parliament in 2024.

E-cycles with increased power and throttle assistance in line with the proposed changes would be classified as EAPCs and would, therefore, be able to use the same infrastructure as pedal cycles, including cycle lanes, tracks and other cycle facilities.

The current regulations apply to Great Britain.

"

Edited February 29, 20242 yr by Az.

This is a real problem, especially the 500W maximum power issue. This would immediately make most eBikes on the market illegal, unless we can claim grandfather rights. Bikes built to this spec will not be legal in Europe.

I have heard that the Gvt want to rush this through before the Election so it may come into force this year! Apparently this, and many other what to the "Powers That Be" seem to be insignificant changes to UK law, is a way of demonstrating that BREXIT is working and we are no longer under the shadow of the EU regs!

Badly thought through and completely unnecessary.

David

Party police will be writing new rules under the banner of safety.

I agree it needs looking at but it will fail to deliver sensible rules if any changes are made.

Might hold off on my next kit as I'm already thinking this is the start of the end of electric bikes.

Shop bought bikes only

No conversations allowed

Proprietary parts

Stamped with labels

Insurance required

Cut off at 15mph and locked down.

Weight restrictions coming in for stopping distance requirements.

Helmit must be worn

Ebike is neither a push bike or motorcycle. That's the problem. Where is the line for regulation?

"The motivation behind this consultation is unclear - but we understand that

it has been pushed through by very senior Government ministers, who have

not been responsive to voices urging a more cautious approach. The proposal

may well be politically driven (to show that the UK can diverge from EU

rules post-Brexit) and it is also possible that some major logistics

companies moving into cycle logistics may have advocated for this change.

Also, it could be that some advocates for legalising private e-scooters and

other new forms of light electric vehicles, who are frustrated by the delay

in legislation to achieve this, see this change as a mechanism via which

such non-pedalled vehicles may be brought in more quickly, and permitted by

default to be used on cycle paths."

BAGB

This is a real problem, especially the 500W maximum power issue. This would immediately make most eBikes on the market illegal, unless we can claim grandfather rights. Bikes built to this spec will not be legal in Europe.

Why do you think that?

Why do you think that?

Because most ebikes in the market have a peak power of more then 500W.

All the best, David

Because most ebikes in the market have a peak power of more then 500W.

 

All the best, David

There is nothing about peak power in proposed changes. They want to raise rated limit from 250W to 500W.

"To amend the legal definition of how EAPCs are classified so that the maximum continuous rated power of the electric motor must not exceed 500 watts."

Good point Az... I rushed through this this morning and miss read the above. As long as it is continuous rated power we should be OK.

All the best, David

*We consider this proposal highly risky for the current e-bike category*,

which relies for its success on e-bikes being treated legally as cycles,

not as motor vehicles. This may be impossible to sustain if these new rules

go through. There are also safety implications and possible unintended

consequences to this proposed change.

BAGB

As long as it is continuous rated power we should be OK.

There are some inconsistencies in language they use that suggest they don't fully understand what exactly they are trying to change. That is what worries me.

For example here:

"

Consultation description

The government proposes 2 changes to the regulations on electrically assisted pedal cycles (EAPCs or e-cycles):

• to amend the legal definition of EAPCs, so that the maximum continuous power output of the electric motor is 500 watts instead of 250 watts"
  

They forgot to use word "rated" which makes a huge difference.

Edited February 29, 20242 yr by Az.

This is a real problem, especially the 500W maximum power issue. This would immediately make most eBikes on the market illegal, unless we can claim grandfather rights. Bikes built to this spec will not be legal in Europe.

It's not maximum power though:

Proposed changes

The government proposes 2 changes to existing regulations:

• to amend the legal definition of how EAPCs are classified so that the maximum continuous rated power of the electric motor must not exceed 500 watts instead of 250 watts as set out in the current regulations
  
• to allow ‘twist and go’ EAPCs to have throttle assistance up to 15.5mph (25km/h) without the need for type approval.
  

That is no different from as at present, maximum continuous rated power, i.e. double the present power.

I've supported the proposal and it is clear from the way the questionaire is steered that the DfT does too. Below are my two key responses to the two questions:

"A lifetime of assisted cycling knowledge from joining the trade in 1950 when the assistance came from tiny add-on petrol motors and always keeping in touch with the subject. Seventeen years of giving advice and hearing from others in the https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/, since becoming the first ever forum member in October 2006. All the knowledge gained strongly indicates that the assistance must be adequate for average people and not just fit cyclists, leaving the safety aspect to the very sensible 15.5mph assist speed limit."

"A common method of an assist system applying power is by torque sensing, giving a multiple of the power the cyclist puts in. Unfortunately that once again disadvantages the less able while advantaging the very able, the opposite of the purpose of an assist system. Providing a throttle to enable enough assistance on demand when needed overcomes that problem for the less able. The other common system on ebikes is cadence sensing, switching on the power just by rotating the pedals. That has the unfortunate consequence of applying more power than necessary at times, such as in crowded slow moving traffic, meaning there are safety implications which throttle control avoids."

.

Edited February 29, 20242 yr by flecc

Ee gods ! I fear a mess of unintended consequencies bought about by partially understood technicalities leading to inaccurate language, later to be poured over by legal eagles and bureaucrats themselves leading to authoritive sounding statements that are themselves inaccurate. Aaaaagh!

Here's hoping that my 2014 conversion continues with it's grandfather rights.

Here's hoping that my 2014 conversion continues with it's grandfather rights.

Don't worry, it will.

There are no unintended consequences. This change is merely an adjustment to the existing overall position within Great Britain, but not Northern Ireland.

We could have had all this internally with Europe's blessing since the first introduction of EU law, if the DfT had bothered to to read the instructions accompanying that on 9th May 2003.

But back then pedelecs were nowhere here and the DfT knew little and obviously cared less about them then.

.

Another article on subject.

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/500w-ebike-consultation

Another article on subject.

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/500w-ebike-consultation

Oh dear... please only not him... he has a long history of spreading misinformation on this subject.

Another article on subject.

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/500w-ebike-consultation

Oh dear... please only not him... he has a long history of spreading misinformation on this subject.

The real problem with the proposal is the throttle, not the power increase. Without a throttle in existing law the machine remains a pedelec and an EAPC, never an e-bike (motor driven bicycle). With a fully acting throttle it is no longer a pedelec or EAPC, despite the DfT saying it will consider them EAPCs. They said that about the Type Approved throttled machines, but have had to admit that they have become motor vehicles in law.

The only way they can avoid that for the proposed change is by amending both the 1983 EAPC law as amended 6th April 2015, and IN ADDITION, amend the EAPC exemption in the Two and Three Wheeled Motor Vehicle Type Approval regulation 168/2013, which is EU law wholly incorporated into the law of Great Britain.

I fear that as previously, they will not complete the necessary amendments for a tidy outcome.

However, if they fail to do the latter as I expect, it means the option of keeping to the existing pedelec EAPC law for 250watts and no throttle will still be open, meaning they at least will remain defined in all respects as bicycles in law and NEVER motor vehicles.

.

The real problem with the proposal is the throttle, not the power increase. Without a throttle in existing law the machine remains a pedelec and an EAPC, never an e-bike (motor driven bicycle). With a fully acting throttle it is no longer a pedelec or EAPC, despite the DfT saying it will consider them EAPCs. They said that about the Type Approved throttled machines, but have had to admit that they have become motor vehicles in law.

 

The only way they can avoid that for the proposed change is by amending both the 1983 EAPC law as amended 6th April 2015, and IN ADDITION, amend the EAPC exemption in the Two and Three Wheeled Motor Vehicle Type Approval regulation 168/2013, which is EU law wholly incorporated into the law of Great Britain.

 

I fear that as previously, they will not complete the necessary amendments for a tidy outcome.

 

However, if they fail to do the latter as I expect, it means the option of keeping to the existing pedelec EAPC law for 250watts and no throttle will still be open, meaning they at least will remain defined in all respects as bicycles in law and NEVER motor vehicles.

.

They've run their trials in the cities for throttle-operated scooters. They're either happy with the results or not. They now need to make them legal or not. That's all there is to it.

Without pedalling, you need more power from the motor to avoid it stalling out and burning on steep hills. 250w is not enough for that. Maybe that's what they figured out during these scooter trials.

It all looks logical and pretty good to me; however, it wouldn't surprise me to see tightening regulation, like registration and 3rd party insurance. Maybe they'll do it in two stages. If they're knowledgeable enough, they might copy the drone regulation, where the drone has to be marked with an ID number registered to the owner, which works pretty well.

Without pedalling, you need more power from the motor to avoid it stalling out and burning on steep hills. 250w is not enough for that. Maybe that's what they figured out during these scooter trials.

They've already taken care of that by saying at the outset that the e-scooters can have 350 watts for the trial, the same as in the USA and Europe. So I don't think power was the issue, as I said, it's the throttle that was the stumbling block since they wanted to include e-scooters into EAPC regulations which prevents fully acting throttles.

I'm certain it wont lead to further restrictions for EAPCs like registration and 3rd party insurance since this move is intended to increase cycling, not impede it. More likely after the change is much harsher law for those who continue to break it, despite the easing.

.

I fear that as previously, they will not complete the necessary amendments for a tidy outcome.

I agree, chances for that are very slim considering they can't even produce proposal in logical and consistent way.

It is a part of pre election brexit we can do it show off called "smarter regulation to grow the economy"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smarter-regulation-to-grow-the-economy/smarter-regulation-to-grow-the-economy

To me it looks like we might see changes in EPAC categories, current 250w rated EAPC's without throttle as per the EAPC's already sold. Then 500w rated EPAC's with throttle but likely with some regulation.

It will though if goes ahead be a bit of a dogs dinner , we will have rated EAPC's with more power then S pedelecs though with the caveat of being speed restricted.

The dogs dinner will also lead to those who will see a chance to derestrict the 500w bikes for 30 mph and we will see more hot rod bikes of 1500 - 2000w mix with pedestrians & traffic.

Personally I'm not against throttles or the 500w rated motor but think they should carry some regulation, esp with quicker acceleration and mixing with shared use paths.

Don't think the motorcylce trade will be too amused.

Edited February 29, 20242 yr by Nealh

One thing raising the motor rating will do is to allow a wider range of hubs to be used, very few are sold as 250w . Most are sold as 350w or 500w to suit the US and othe rmarkets, this would make the likes of the AKM128c a much more viable motor to use of r alot more users. It has been a favourite of mine to use and know d8veh as well .

And finally it would bring the Swizzbee to within legal power limits but not on the speed side.

Edited February 29, 20242 yr by Nealh

Then 500w rated EPAC's with throttle but likely with some regulation.

It will though if goes ahead be a bit of a dogs dinner , we will have rated EAPC's with more power then S pedelecs though with the caveat of being speed restricted.

No I think they are making it quite clear that EAPC's are changing to 500 watts with throttle if this is adopted. They wont have more power than speed pedelecs though, since they already have the 500 watt limit, changed to that some years ago.

Don't think the motorcycle trade will be too amused.

That's for sure, though they might respond by becoming EAPC dealers as well! That would take many of them back to their origins, the business I worked for back in the 1950s was a Cycle and Motorcycle Company Ltd, evolving into Motorcycles only.

.