BBS02 Kit,750 Watt,25 Amp on Apollo Evade MTB

[Kinninvie]

I won a BBS02 on an ebay auction last week,it was £380 which I was happy to pay especially as the seller had 10 to sell and only lives 30 miles from me.
The manufacturing date was 08 August 14 so it will be the 9 FET controller (I would have sent it back if it was not).
I was going to fit it on my sons 10 year old Raliegh MTB but it would have meant moving piles of stuff and both tyres were flat when it was put away (9 years ago) so I decided to go to Halfords instead and came back with an Apollo Evade (£149)

Today I started the job and removed the pedals and cranks then the BB,
Unfortunately the drive side was too tight to remove with my stillsons so I went to the bike shop for the correct socket,he had just sold the last 2 the day before he said but then agreed to sell me his workshop one as he could get another tomorrow(nice of him).
Once the bearings were out I tried to fit the motor through but it only went half way and hit something solid.
Turned out to be where the frame tubes were welded so had to go back to town and buy some grindstones for my drill (nobody seems to sell Dremels round here these days).
15 minutes of grinding away and the motor slid into place easily.
5 minutes and it was all bolted into place and the chain fitted.
I have left the front derailleur in place as it will make a good chain guide to prevent any cog jumping problems as some others have had.

I then fitted the wheel sensor, it has a sticky back but this only lasted for about 15 seconds so I used cable ties to hold it in place.By comparison my Dillenger sensor was stuck on the frame the same way 2 months ago and is rock solid.

I then fitted the LCD to the handlebars,it comes with 2 sizes of spacer neither of which fitted my standard 25.4mm bars even though 1 had 25.4 cast into it.
Luckily ,because of the bends near the centre, the lcd did fit securely enough.
Then I ran out of time as one of my boys had to go to the dentist.
I shall finish it off in the morning then testing can begin.
I will be using the Dillenger 10Ah battery and rear rack on this.

 

[Kinninvie]

Got the cranks fitted this morning then wired it all up which was only a 10 minute job.
The Dillenger rack is a better fit on this bike as I can use the supporting struts as its a hardtail.
The downside as I have since found out is that the rack rattles like mad on these roads so I am going to have to fit some bits of rubber to quieten it down.
First thing I did once complete was check the no load speed in top gear and it came out at 17.7 Mph which I thought was a bit disappointing.
I moved the assist level from 1 to 2 and tried again and it went to 22.8 Mph!
I then put it into number 9 and the no load speed came out at 39.2 Mph (its got the 46 tooth chainwheel).
So its different to the Dillenger which gives full throttle in any assist level.
I have fitted a cut off lever to the rear brake to assist with gearchanges and it works great.
Unfortunately the Clarks CMD 9 brakes are the same as on the other bike,next to useless so I have ordered a pair of Exo hydraulics for it.
After lunch I will be trying it up the 1 in 5 hill opposite our house and then onto the moorland tracks at the top to see how it goes off road.

The pedelec sensor cuts in after a third of a revolution and takes off like a rocket in 1st gear.
Only been along the main road for a couple of miles so far which has a couple of small hills and it seems a lot more powerful than the Dillenger but obviously a lot of that comes from using the gears and having the motor running near its peak efficiency most of the time.
I will definitely be putting the assist into 0 at road junctions every time .

I think I will end up using the Dillenger when going to town as its a bit tamer than the BBS and so feels safer.

The BBS is the bike for the country though especially round here where its very hilly and surrounded by moorland.

I have ordered a wattmeter for it to keep an eye on battery range as I noticed quite a few people said the battery gauge on the 961 was a bit naff.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Crank drives give the impression that they're more powerful than they are in the lower gears. You get massive torque in first gear, which is how you feel the power, but each time you change up, the torque goes down. It will will be interesting to compare the top speed of both systems without pedalling.

 

[Kinninvie]

Current top speed on the flat is around 23 Mph which is identical to the Dillenger kit on the same peice of road.
Next week I will be doing my tour of the dale that I have done a couple of times on the Dillenger and recorded with Strava http://www.strava.com/activities/186427138 and that will make a good comparison.
On minor downhills it tops out at 25Mph which I suspect is an lcd set limit.
I did see on another thread that altering wheel size to 16 inch (from 26) gets rid of that limit and you just set the lcd to read Kph but read it as Mph.

Had half an hours practice on the 1 in 5 hill this afternoon and found that its best tackled in 1st gear with the assist set at 7 and WOT.
This lets me get all the way up at a shade under 11 Mph for the entire 250 yards..
Without throttle its almost 2 miles per hour slower and harder work.

The Dillenger (and me) ground to a halt on the same hill in the first 25 yards!

A WORD OF WARNING Dont try setting off on a 1 in 5 hill in 1st gear with a stab of the throttle,the bike will go up instead of forward!!
I must admit ,this outfit is so much lighter than the other one anyway with it being alloy framed

I did try a ride along a deep rutted moorland track but found that it was too bumpy to have good throttle control and I could not pedal because of the depth of the ruts.

The battery gauge does seem a bit more sensitive to voltage sag than the Dillenger as it kept dropping down to 3 or 2 bars then going back up as soon as we hit a downhill.
I did 17.9 miles today including the hill work and the bars did disappear at the end but when I pulled into the yard it came back up to 2 bars at rest.
Its getting better range than the Dillenger already but thats to be expected with a lighter ,smaller kit anyway.

 

[Kinninvie]

Had a good ride out yesterday on hills to the north of home where the Dillenger could not manage.
The Evade sailed up all the hills at 11Mph with my feeble help.
Biggest surprise was when I returned home and downloaded my Strava recording.....49.9 Mph !!! That was going down a 1 in 5 hill and to be honest I kept using the brakes so over 50 will be a doddle once I get the hydraulic brakes fitted.
http://www.strava.com/activities/197075289

Nice weather forecast next few days(apart from the wind) so going to do a direct comparison between this and the Dillenger,I am expecting the battery to go quite a bit further especially as the BBS freewheels much easier.

 

[Kinninvie]

Did the slow Teedsdale tour today to compare the efficiency of the BBS02 to the Dillenger.
I kept to pretty much the same speed on the flat and uphills and let it roll unpowered where it would.
The Dillenger managed 16 miles before the battery cut out and the BBS02 managed 30.6 miles altogether so almost double the mileage

This is the link to the Dillenger http://www.strava.com/activities/176739024

This is the link to the BBS02 http://www.strava.com/activities/197952694

What really surprised me was that some parts that I thought were flat or slightly uphill were actually downhill as the BBS was picking up speed

 

[Kinninvie]

Just fitted a Wattmeter this afternoon and the initial test results are---
Mileage 6.5 miles (very hilly).
Pack voltage 45.28 volts at finish.
Minimum volts (sag) 45.15 volts.
Peak Watts 1009W.
Peak Amps 22.96A.
116.7 Wh used.
2.948Ah


Most of my light pedalling was showing around 500W drawn and full throttle on the flat was around 750 W so exactly on the rating.

Forgot to note the starting voltage put pretty sure it was less than the finishing voltage but I will put that down to my failing memory.

I have also replaced the 14-28 freewheel with an 11-30 one and the difference is very noticeable.
It will pull all 108Kg of me and 20Kg of bike up a 10% hill in 1st gear on assist level 3 of 9 WITHOUT pedalling and thats at around 8.5Mph.
Top speed on the flat is 29.5Mph.

At this rate I would get 35 miles out of the batteries(using 15 out of the 16Ah available) but that includes quite a bit of throttle use up big hills.

(EDIT) Just for accuracy,the batteries were charged and balanced to 4.06V per cell the day before and had done 6.5 miles BEFORE the wattmeter was fitted.

 

[Kinninvie]

Did my 4 week check on the bike today as the chain was jumping the rear sprocket a bit(only since fitting the DNP freewheel) and found a few small problems.
First one of the chain links was almost seized despite the chain being lubed twice with chain oil spray so new chain to fit tomorrow.
Then one of the rear caliper to adaptor bolts was missing and the other was loose,luckily I had a spare and I am expecting a pair of hydraulic disc brakes on Monday so thats that taken care of.
Everything else was tight .
The other problem is that the chain has gone past 1st gear twice and ended up between the spokes and sprocket so I shall adjust the top stop a bit.

I have been looking for a decent MTB to put this kit on but as usual when looking they all seem to be a bit expensive so I have decided to keep it on the Evade till spring and no doubt I will come across something decent by then at the right price.

Had a check of the Dillenger/Trax as well while its raining and the only problem is that the front disc mounting bolts are all loose.
Probably because I had to fit a 5mm spacer to get clearance for the caliper but only had the standard bolts to use so they were only on a couple of threads.
Getting a set of 15mm bolts tomorrow along with a tube of Loctite so both bikes should be ready to ride just in time for Mondays heatwave hitting us..

 

[Kinninvie]

Just trying out my new camera.

 

[Kinninvie]

 

[sir_round_hound]

Just fitted a Wattmeter this afternoon and the initial test results are---
Mileage 6.5 miles (very hilly).
Pack voltage 45.28 volts at finish.
Minimum volts (sag) 45.15 volts.
Peak Watts 1009W.
Peak Amps 22.96A.
116.7 Wh used.
2.948Ah


Most of my light pedalling was showing around 500W drawn and full throttle on the flat was around 750 W so exactly on the rating.

Forgot to note the starting voltage put pretty sure it was less than the finishing voltage but I will put that down to my failing memory.

I have also replaced the 14-28 freewheel with an 11-30 one and the difference is very noticeable.
It will pull all 108Kg of me and 20Kg of bike up a 10% hill in 1st gear on assist level 3 of 9 WITHOUT pedalling and thats at around 8.5Mph.
Top speed on the flat is 29.5Mph.

At this rate I would get 35 miles out of the batteries(using 15 out of the 16Ah available) but that includes quite a bit of throttle use up big hills.

(EDIT) Just for accuracy,the batteries were charged and balanced to 4.06V per cell the day before and had done 6.5 miles BEFORE the wattmeter was fitted.

Did you have to change the rear derailleur to fit the new freewheel?

 

[One_Box]

Just fitted a Wattmeter this afternoon and the initial test results are---
Mileage 6.5 miles (very hilly).
Pack voltage 45.28 volts at finish.
Minimum volts (sag) 45.15 volts.
Peak Watts 1009W.
Peak Amps 22.96A.
116.7 Wh used.
2.948Ah


Most of my light pedalling was showing around 500W drawn and full throttle on the flat was around 750 W so exactly on the rating.

Forgot to note the starting voltage put pretty sure it was less than the finishing voltage but I will put that down to my failing memory.

I have also replaced the 14-28 freewheel with an 11-30 one and the difference is very noticeable.
It will pull all 108Kg of me and 20Kg of bike up a 10% hill in 1st gear on assist level 3 of 9 WITHOUT pedalling and thats at around 8.5Mph.
Top speed on the flat is 29.5Mph.

At this rate I would get 35 miles out of the batteries(using 15 out of the 16Ah available) but that includes quite a bit of throttle use up big hills.

(EDIT) Just for accuracy,the batteries were charged and balanced to 4.06V per cell the day before and had done 6.5 miles BEFORE the wattmeter was fitted.

Which wattmeter did you buy, any wiring issues ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You don't need to change the derailleur when you change the free-wheel.

 

[anotherkiwi]

You don't need to change the derailleur when you change the free-wheel.

Unless it has a silly big cog and the low end derailleur you already have doesn't have that size in its range. My mega-range 14-34 is working really well for me, I can now ride up most hills around here without the motor (I have a 42 tooth on the front).

 

[Kinninvie]

Did you have to change the rear derailleur to fit the new freewheel?

No,The same one wil take up to a 34T

Which wattmeter did you buy, any wiring issues ?

I use a GT Power meter from ebay.
Wiring manual at this link.
https://system.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=215569&c=1327152&h=6e6f668b5d9f0a5de2b8&_xt=.pdf
I have 3 of these,one for the bike and 2 fitted to my bulk chargers.

 

[sir_round_hound]

Just fitted a Wattmeter this afternoon and the initial test results are---
Mileage 6.5 miles (very hilly).
Pack voltage 45.28 volts at finish.
Minimum volts (sag) 45.15 volts.
Peak Watts 1009W.
Peak Amps 22.96A.
116.7 Wh used.
2.948Ah


Most of my light pedalling was showing around 500W drawn and full throttle on the flat was around 750 W so exactly on the rating.

Forgot to note the starting voltage put pretty sure it was less than the finishing voltage but I will put that down to my failing memory.

I have also replaced the 14-28 freewheel with an 11-30 one and the difference is very noticeable.
It will pull all 108Kg of me and 20Kg of bike up a 10% hill in 1st gear on assist level 3 of 9 WITHOUT pedalling and thats at around 8.5Mph.
Top speed on the flat is 29.5Mph.

At this rate I would get 35 miles out of the batteries(using 15 out of the 16Ah available) but that includes quite a bit of throttle use up big hills.

(EDIT) Just for accuracy,the batteries were charged and balanced to 4.06V per cell the day before and had done 6.5 miles BEFORE the wattmeter was fitted.

Did you need to shorten the chain?

 

[Kinninvie]

Did you need to shorten the chain?

No,the chain is designed to work with a triple front chainwheel so ,as its now using a single,, the chain copes fine.
I now have a 42T chain wheel and 32-11T cassette and its OK still.